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Purdue in the late 1990s is the same. The Toiletmakers went 7-5 in 1984 and after that, didn't win more than five games a season until 1997, when coincidentally, they hired Joe Tiller. That stretch included four three-win seasons, a two-win season and a one-win season. They went 3-8 in 1996 in Jim Colletto's final season, then went 9-3 -- including a bowl win -- the very next year, which was Tiller's first. Were the players all the sudden significantly better from one year to the next? No. If you hire the right coach, it makes a difference.  

That and getting away from an offense under Colletto in 94 where the QB that led the team in TD had 3. Didn’t that last team under Colletto cycle 3 QBs? He was just an epically bad coach. But he did recruit Drew Brees. Both Tiller and Brohm were great hires for them.

 

 

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How many of you who say "throw money at it" (which is a far too simplistic and elementary stance....if we had "thrown money at it," close losses are wins?  What?   Jeff Brohm just lost to Nevada.  How is it an automatic that he's better at Indiana than what we've had?   Les Miles?  You really think Les Miles is coming to Indiana?  Okay.....).....anyway, how many of you who say "throw money at it" have made significant donations to the Varsity Club, earmarking your money for the football program?

 

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3 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Spending money may not work but NOT spending money definitely won’t work. IU has to at least make the effort. Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, and Illinois have way better football facilities than IU. That is not acceptable. The Tallen Complex cost $8.5 million. Illinois just opened a $79 million football ONLY complex with bowling lanes, games, etc. That is what IU is going up against.

Bowling lanes.  YES!!!   We need bowling lanes!!!  THAT will help the program.  

 

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Look, Illinois hired Lovie Smith - he's an NFL guy with a winning record in his 11 seasons in the NFL.  They went and hired a "name."  They pay him $3.5 million/year.  They "threw money at it."   Lovie Smith's record at Illinois is 11-27.  He has gone winless in the Big Ten not once, but TWICE and has won a total of 4 conference games in 4 years.  All of you are dealing strictly in hypotheticals.   Throwing money at football ensures exactly nothing.  Hiring a different coach, regardless of his name ensures exactly nothing.   I'll grant Bill Lynch was a bad hire.  I'll grant Gerry DiNardo was a HORRIBLE hire.   I don't think Kevin Wilson was a bad hire, and I see no signs yet that Tom Allen was a bad hire.   Building a $500 million football only complex doesn't ensure anything.  Kansas has awesome facilities.  

When Indiana's at the top of the basketball world again, this will be no big deal.  But for now, there's no proof of anything except people wanting to keep up with the Jones's.   Maybe Mark Cuban will step up a-la Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens.    

 

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25 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Look, Illinois hired Lovie Smith - he's an NFL guy with a winning record in his 11 seasons in the NFL.  They went and hired a "name."  They pay him $3.5 million/year.  They "threw money at it."   Lovie Smith's record at Illinois is 11-27.  He has gone winless in the Big Ten not once, but TWICE and has won a total of 4 conference games in 4 years.  All of you are dealing strictly in hypotheticals.   Throwing money at football ensures exactly nothing.  Hiring a different coach, regardless of his name ensures exactly nothing.   I'll grant Bill Lynch was a bad hire.  I'll grant Gerry DiNardo was a HORRIBLE hire.   I don't think Kevin Wilson was a bad hire, and I see no signs yet that Tom Allen was a bad hire.   Building a $500 million football only complex doesn't ensure anything.  Kansas has awesome facilities.  

When Indiana's at the top of the basketball world again, this will be no big deal.  But for now, there's no proof of anything except people wanting to keep up with the Jones's.   Maybe Mark Cuban will step up a-la Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens.    

 

You keep throwing out stuff about coaches, but it isn’t all about coaches. Since you keep mocking my “throw money at it” statement (also, congrats on continuing to be one of the least pleasant people I’ve ever come across on the internet, which is saying something) I’m assuming you’re talking at (yes, at) me. It’s more than coaches. Tom Allen can win at Indiana. We don’t need Les Miles (who is overrated as all hell.) It’s technology. We’re way behind in technology in offices, meeting rooms, the stadium, Mellencamp, etc. It’s nutrition. It’s getting better with the SEZ project (which we threw money at!!!!). It’s development. We “threw money at” 2 HUGE aspects to the program in Ballou and Rhea to keep them here, but they have to share a weight room with the other 23 sports. Probably not gonna get it done long-term. Could use some money to throw at a football-only one! It’s recruiting budget. This staff has recruited its tails off and it’s showing. Imagine what would happen if we threw more money at it! 

It was asked how Indiana can win more in football. It will first and foremost take more money. We don’t have that money, and likely never will have enough to compete at the top of the division, but in college football, it’s All. About. Money. No matter what, it comes back to $$$. I answered the question, I didn’t say Glass should be fired for not doing it. 

Instead of mocking that idea, I’d be more than happy to read how you think Indiana can win in football. 

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Money is necessary, not sufficient. Sure, it doesn't guarantee that your program will be successful. But, if you refuse to spend money then your program is going to struggle. I can't think of any top programs that don't spend a ton of money on football. It's an arms race. If we don't play along then we're going to get left in the dust. 

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11 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

You keep throwing out stuff about coaches, but it isn’t all about coaches. Since you keep mocking my “throw money at it” statement (also, congrats on continuing to be one of the least pleasant people I’ve ever come across on the internet, which is saying something) I’m assuming you’re talking at (yes, at) me. It’s more than coaches. Tom Allen can win at Indiana. We don’t need Les Miles (who is overrated as all hell.) It’s technology. We’re way behind in technology in offices, meeting rooms, the stadium, Mellencamp, etc. It’s nutrition. It’s getting better with the SEZ project (which we threw money at!!!!). It’s development. We “threw money at” 2 HUGE aspects to the program in Ballou and Rhea to keep them here, but they have to share a weight room with the other 23 sports. Probably not gonna get it done long-term. Could use some money to throw at a football-only one! It’s recruiting budget. This staff has recruited its tails off and it’s showing. Imagine what would happen if we threw more money at it! 

It was asked how Indiana can win more in football. It will first and foremost take more money. We don’t have that money, and likely never will have enough to compete at the top of the division, but in college football, it’s All. About. Money. No matter what, it comes back to $$$. I answered the question, I didn’t say Glass should be fired for not doing it. 

Instead of mocking that idea, I’d be more than happy to read how you think Indiana can win in football. 

I'm not mocking you.  I'm telling you "throw money at it" isn't going to work.   We've (society)  "thrown money" at the inner city school problem for decades to no avail because we never solved the core problem.  The core problem for Indiana has nothing to do with how much money we spend.  And no matter how much money we throw, the 3 blue bloods in our division will always have millions more to "throw at it."   There's such a thing as throwing good money after bad.  If divisions and conference landscape change, it's a different conversation.  But we're sitting as a program which can reasonably win 5-7 games about every season.   How many more games do you reasonably think are CONSISTENTLY winnable at Indiana?  Do you believe we can consistently go 9-3?  10-2?  Based on what?  What school has "thrown money" at football and done this?   Give me an example.  

"Imagine what would happen with recruiting."  Okay...I'm imagining.  I'm imagining Indiana is still in the Big Ten East.  Still with a ceiling.  I don't like it..at all, and in fact wrote a letter to Jim Delany last year.  But....it's reality whether I like it or not.  

I DON'T think Indiana can "win" at football as I think you define it and never said I did.  You're asking me to defend an argument I'm not making.  I think in the current environment Indiana has a ceiling and I've said so many times.   As long as Indiana is in the Big Ten East, 7-5 or 8-4 is about the limit on any kind of consistent basis, and i think we're about there.   And money won't help us go from 5-7 to 7-5.   That's on player development, luck, health, depth, etc.   Bowling lanes won't do it.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Money is necessary, not sufficient. Sure, it doesn't guarantee that your program will be successful. But, if you refuse to spend money then your program is going to struggle. I can't think of any top programs that don't spend a ton of money on football. It's an arms race. If we don't play along then we're going to get left in the dust. 

We have upgraded the stadium twice since 2007.  We have brand new facilities, top shelf technology, and a terrific weight room.    Why do you think we have "refused to spend money?"   That's simply not accurate.  And again, not about what Fred Glass has or hasn't done.

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Money puts you in the game. How you spend it accounts for wins and losses.

I don’t think basketball is a ton different, but since 2 or 3 good players can make a team good or competitive, you see more parity, slightly. In basketball the one and done also helps with parity. Imagine that Kentucky team with Anthony Davis for 4 years. Etc....

Anyway, It’s Indiana, and we don’t have 6 figure football players on our roster. Even what we consider spending money in football will pale in comparison to the real football giants. That’s why I keep my expectations in check and root for football miracles.




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Just now, Old Friend said:

We have upgraded the stadium twice since 2007.  We have brand new facilities, top shelf technology, and a terrific weight room.    Why do you think we have "refused to spend money?"   That's simply not accurate.  And again, not about what Fred Glass has or hasn't done.

The football team shares the weight room with a bunch of the other teams. Others have pointed out that that's something coaches use against us in recruiting. The facilities are brand new and they still lag behind other Big Ten teams' facilities. And why did it take until 2019 to give them a new locker room? We were out building all these facilities for non-revenue generating sports and seemingly left football and basketball for last. 

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Florida State spends the 2nd most money on football in the NCAA.   They are 1-1, having just been to overtime w UL Monroe.  They were 5-7 last season.  Money ensures nothing.

Every school in the top 30 save Michigan can be considered first a "football school."   Indiana will never be a "football school."   There's only so much money, boys.  Indiana has spent it's money on the basketball program; and while I get it hasn't yet paid off, I'd encourage people to take a true and objective look across the parking lot.

 

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12 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The football team shares the weight room with a bunch of the other teams. Others have pointed out that that's something coaches use against us in recruiting. The facilities are brand new and they still lag behind other Big Ten teams' facilities. And why did it take until 2019 to give them a new locker room? We were out building all these facilities for non-revenue generating sports and seemingly left football and basketball for last. 

When basketball is back on top, none of this will matter.  I know what the problems are.  I also know what the reality is.  You and others keep commenting that coaches use things against us, yet our recruiting classes keep improving.   We're not going to get top 10 recruiting classes at Indiana any more than Rutgers will get them in basketball. 

Fred Glass' job is to oversee the athletic department.  Not oversee revenue generating sports.  Our baseball facility was once the joke of the Big Ten.  Now?  It's one of the top 2-3 in the conference and hosts NCAA regionals and the Big Ten tournanent.   Same with softball.  Same with volleyball.  I have no idea why some of you think, with 100 years of history to draw from, you believe Indiana can be a football school simply by throwing money at it.   How do you define "winning?"   Is it consistently beating Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State?  That's a pipe dream.  If winning means 7-5 and consistent bowls, we can do that without spending hundreds of millions we don't have.   Those 3 schools have 6-7 home games every season and sell 105,000 tickets to those games at $75/pop.    We have 6-7 home games and sell 40,000 tickets at an average of $40/pop when accounting for kids (not including students).    You're talking about budgets in the $50 million (self generated) range vs. $16 million.  It's simply not a level playing field.

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3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Florida State spends the 2nd most money on football in the NCAA.   They are 1-1, having just been to overtime w UL Monroe.  They were 5-7 last season.  Money ensures nothing.

Every school in the top 30 save Michigan can be considered first a "football school."   Indiana will never be a "football school."   There's only so much money, boys.  Indiana has spent it's money on the basketball program; and while I get it hasn't yet paid off, I'd encourage people to take a true and objective look across the parking lot.

 

And before last year Florida State won 10+ games in 6 of 8 seasons. They won a national championship in 2013, won the orange bowl in 2012 and went 13-1 in 2014. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. Flora state spends the 2nd most money in the NCAA, and they have had a helluva lot of success over the past decade to show for it. You're proving our point for us. 

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10 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

When basketball is back on top, none of this will matter.  I know what the problems are.  I also know what the reality is.  You and others keep commenting that coaches use things against us, yet our recruiting classes keep improving.   We're not going to get top 10 recruiting classes at Indiana any more than Rutgers will get them in basketball. 

Fred Glass' job is to oversee the athletic department.  Not oversee revenue generating sports.  Our baseball facility was once the joke of the Big Ten.  Now?  It's one of the top 2-3 in the conference and hosts NCAA regionals and the Big Ten tournanent.   Same with softball.  Same with volleyball.  I have no idea why some of you think, with 100 years of history to draw from, you believe Indiana can be a football school simply by throwing money at it.   How do you define "winning?"   Is it consistently beating Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State?  That's a pipe dream.  If winning means 7-5 and consistent bowls, we can do that without spending hundreds of millions we don't have.   Those 3 schools have 6-7 home games every season and sell 105,000 tickets to those games at $75/pop.    We have 6-7 home games and sell 40,000 tickets at an average of $40/pop when accounting for kids (not including students).    You're talking about budgets in the $50 million (self generated) range vs. $16 million.  It's simply not a level playing field.

Look, it sounds good for IU to say that they care about all the sports programs, but we both know that basketball and football are the ones that really matter. Sure, Glass's job is to oversee all the programs, but in reality those two are the ones that matter. You seem to acknowledge that when you say that this will all be forgotten when IU is good at basketball again. 

How can you say 7-5 and consistent bowling is possible without spending money when we've almost never done it? I'm 25 years old. IU has won 7 games one time during my lifetime and gone to 3 bowl games. What we've been doing hasn't worked. 

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9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Look, it sounds good for IU to say that they care about all the sports programs, but we both know that basketball and football are the ones that really matter. Sure, Glass's job is to oversee all the programs, but in reality those two are the ones that matter. You seem to acknowledge that when you say that this will all be forgotten when IU is good at basketball again. 

How can you say 7-5 and consistent bowling is possible without spending money when we've almost never done it? I'm 25 years old. IU has won 7 games one time during my lifetime and gone to 3 bowl games. What we've been doing hasn't worked. 

Basketball drives the kion's share of revenue at IU.  Not football.   How will money help take IU from 5 wins to 7?   What guarantees that?  What coach can you get?  If we spent $300 million in a football only facility, how .much are those 2 wins worth even if you can achieve them?   Making a fee fans happier isn't going to drive that kind of expenditure.

How much have you donated and earmarked for football?

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Just now, Old Friend said:

Basketball drives the kion's share of revenue at IU.  Not football.   How will money help take IU from 5 wins to 7?   What guarantees that?  What coach can you get?  If we spent $300 million in a football only facility, how .much are those 2 wins worth even if you can achieve them?   Making a fee fans happier isn't going to drive that kind of expenditure.

How much have you donated and earmarked for football?

IU basketball is still making lots of money even with the struggles over the last decade. Assembly Hall is almost always sold out or very close to it. We're not going to make a whole lot more when/if the program gets back to the top. Football is where the potential for growth is. It's the untapped well of IU sports. We can make a ton of money from an improved football team. IU becoming a consistent 6-7 win team would make a huge difference. Fans might actually show up to the games if we become a program that consistently goes bowling. 

I've donated $0. I support the program by attending games when I can and by watching on tv. I'm not a mega millionaire. A few thousand dollars from me or other alums is not going to make any difference at all. The multi million dollar donations are what move the needle.

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23 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

IU basketball is still making lots of money even with the struggles over the last decade. Assembly Hall is almost always sold out or very close to it. We're not going to make a whole lot more when/if the program gets back to the top. Football is where the potential for growth is. It's the untapped well of IU sports. We can make a ton of money from an improved football team. IU becoming a consistent 6-7 win team would make a huge difference. Fans might actually show up to the games if we become a program that consistently goes bowling. 

I've donated $0. I support the program by attending games when I can and by watching on tv. I'm not a mega millionaire. A few thousand dollars from me or other alums is not going to make any difference at all. The multi million dollar donations are what move the needle.

If the multi million donors wanted to "throw money" at football, they would have.   They throw it at basketball because that's Indiana's bell cow.   Why do you think they haven't thrown money at football since the Mellencamp Pavilion?   I DO like the natural build look over drop ceilings, though.

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