Fred Glass Retiring

[lucel15 3,052]

1 hour ago, Iugradman said:

But the point is to WIN and IU has not done that in the two sports that matter under Glass. IU last beat Purdue in football and basketball in 2016. Zero winning seasons in football under Glass. Missed 7 of the last 11 NCAA tournaments under Glass.

I really don’t understand how this guy gets such a pass and has so many defenders. McRobbie didn’t make Glass extend Wilson, fire him a few months later, and hire an unproven assistant without conducting a basic search. 

Glass is a lawyer with no understanding of how to evaluate coaches. He didn’t play sports and had zero experience in collegiate athletics when he took the job.

Again we’ve never seen eye to eye on CTA. The he was never a proven assistant is so old and doesn't hold much ground when you look at the jobs he had and what his units did under him. I don’t get how you can’t see he’s a proven assistant was he given a head coach position early, yeah for sure, but at least we have a coach willing to grind it here at IU and who wants to be here and actually build something instead of a stepping stone. He was proven at ole miss, he did work down at USF, and he took an abysmal IU defense and turned them around with no depth and made them a top 30 defense his first two seasons.....I bet you use the ex hs head coach isn’t worthy of head coach in college football. Then...I guess Wilson got lucky because he was an awful Hs coach. There’s no reasoning with you as you want to ignore what Allen is trying to build. You ignore what little depth Wilson built Allen inherited and Wilson would’ve had the same depth if he were the head coach still...not to mention where did Wilson’s offensive mind go....where did this QB whisperer go....oh yeah he couldn’t recruit QBs. Seth Littrell brought suds with him....at least Allen has some structure behind his building a football team. I’ll let people have their own opinions...as we are all entitled to them, but when people just choose to ignore facts and basis of other items....that’s when I just don’t respect the words written or spoken

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

1)  Men's basketball is on the upswing, and saying anything different is driven by an agenda.  Glass really had no choice but to give Tom Crean the contracts he did; and when it was time to fire him, he fired him.  The current coach has had exactly one season with any of his recruits playing even a single minute and played undersized and out manned for 2 seasons.    The cupboard Crean left was pretty damned bare.   Jury is out on Miller to be sure, but I don't know how anyone can look at the program and see anything but positive signs.  Crean screwed up the basketball program more than Glass did.  Adam Herbert screwed it up a WHOLE lot more than Glass did.   The bigger picture places blame on more than Fred Glass.  You've always been focused on the bottom line...regardless of how the program arrived there.  Circumstances matter.
2)  Football....    Your criteria are...what?   Indiana football has never won.  Under any AD and any coach except a few years in the 1980's under Bill Mallory.   But....the recruiting classes have improved and talent / depth is at a 25 year high right now.   Extending Wilson was not a bad call.  Wilson took Indiana to a bowl game and was immediately hired by Ohio State when he was fired.  Learning what he did after the extension is bad timing more than something for which you can play the blame game.   The problem Indiana has in football now?  Their ceiling is 4th in their own division.  Who can they hire?   You can be myopic all you want and pretend Indiana can consistently compete with Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State; but that's a fool's errand.  Indiana hired a guy who built a much improved defense and a guy who has a ton of great local relationships with coaches AND ties to Florida.  I don't know how many times Indiana has won 5 games in back to back seasons in its history, but it's not a big number.   Purdue has a HUGE recruiting advantage because it can win its division in any given year,  Indiana can't.  Blame Jim Delany.  Indiana football has a ceiling.  I know you'll call that defeatist, and I get it.  But do you REALLY believe Indiana has a chance to EVER do better than 8-4 or 7-5 in that division?  Seriously.  Do you?  With those circumstances, what do you say to prospective coaches?   It sucks..but it's also reality.  Indiana got completely screwed in football.  As did Maryland and Rutgers, and we have dominated those two.
3)  If he has no idea how to evaluate coaches, why is basketball on the upswing?  Why has baseball become a Big Ten power?  Why has softball become a Big Ten power?  Why has women's basketball improved so dramatically?   Why have swimming and diving and soccer remained powerhouse programs?
I know you'll disagree, but that's the reason he has defenders.

I’m inspired by your optimism here, I truly am because I recall very early on you (paraphrasing) alerting everting that Crean wasn’t the right guy and that he was over his skis. So why now are we defending Glass for keeping him around so long and allowing the program to be in such bad shape where the [cupboards were pretty damned bare]? If you could see it so early on, why did it take so long for him to act? In regards to the program, it’s really hard for us to go anywhere but up, we have missed the tourney more often than making it over the past 10 years and missed it the last 3. Yes there are things to be excited about but there always have been. There hasn’t been a season I can recall where I wasn’t excited about some incoming players or some returning players but the results on the court have been consistently underwhelming both under Crean and Archie. I’m not at all suggesting he isn’t the right guy but as you even said “jury is out on miller”. So far Glass held on to Crean way too long allowing him to bring the program back into a serious rebuild mode and hired a coach that is going into his 3rd season where the jury is still out - that’s not a great track record.

In regards to football, how does Iowa and Michigan State put together successful seasons and we can’t? How do we not compete with Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State at least in our better years and their down years at a minimum? 25 years ago if someone said Ohio State and Michigan could be better basketball programs than Indiana people would have laughed but it happened over time. Those football schools found a way to not just compete in basketball but win big and outpace traditional basketball schools. It can happen for IU football but it will take commitment, resources and time. There is no reason IU cannot be a consistent 7-8 win team each year.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Regarding CTC, it’s entirely realistic to say he was over his skis while simultaneously landing IUBB in the best positions it had been in in decades.


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[ElectricBoogaloo 4,293]

Meanwhile, LSU has the opposite problem.

 

[lucel15 3,052]

8 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m inspired by your optimism here, I truly am because I recall very early on you (paraphrasing) alerting everting that Crean wasn’t the right guy and that he was over his skis. So why now are we defending Glass for keeping him around so long and allowing the program to be in such bad shape where the [cupboards were pretty damned bare]? If you could see it so early on, why did it take so long for him to act? In regards to the program, it’s really hard for us to go anywhere but up, we have missed the tourney more often than making it over the past 10 years and missed it the last 3. Yes there are things to be excited about but there always have been. There hasn’t been a season I can recall where I wasn’t excited about some incoming players or some returning players but the results on the court have been consistently underwhelming both under Crean and Archie. I’m not at all suggesting he isn’t the right guy but as you even said “jury is out on miller”. So far Glass held on to Crean way too long allowing him to bring the program back into a serious rebuild mode and hired a coach that is going into his 3rd season where the jury is still out - that’s not a great track record.

In regards to football, how does Iowa and Michigan State put together successful seasons and we can’t? How do we not compete with Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State at least in our better years and their down years at a minimum? 25 years ago if someone said Ohio State and Michigan could be better basketball programs than Indiana people would have laughed but it happened over time. Those football schools found a way to not just compete in basketball but win big and outpace traditional basketball schools. It can happen for IU football but it will take commitment, resources and time. There is no reason IU cannot be a consistent 7-8 win team each year.


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Uh I’ll just chime in here Iowa and Michigan state have coaches who have been there forever and have built a foundation their way and they are not the Cleveland Browns like IU where a coach is gone after 2-3 years like people want with CTA. Also they probably have a a high backing from fans and their admin. 

[mdn82 25,456]

Fred Glass has been at IU for over a decade and we are still waiting for breakthroughs and respectability in football and basketball. Who else gets that long of a leash to show results? IU just needs to come out and say that they aren’t interested in winning at a high level. Nothing they do indicates a desire to.  Penn State and Michigan State are not unbeatable juggernauts. And IU can’t even beat teams from the Western division of the conference, so the program’s issues go far beyond alignment.  Softball had a losing record in conference play last season. Nobody cares about non-revenue sports.  

 

 

Did you not read the article? McRobbie is ecstatic with everything going on for the reasons I have said over the last two years to you. What matters to you doesn’t exactly matter as much to them as other things. I know you can’t accept that, but it is the way it is. Long leash? No. He is doing what they ask of him. I don’t know what else they need to say for you to understand. They said exactly what you wanted them to and posted in this what I am quoting. You just aren’t listening because you refuse to. That’s a you problem more than anyone else. 

 

Edit: You can not like the direction of the university, but McRobbie laid out in that article the reasons he is happy. Glass in that article explained why he is doing a good job. If those weren’t his job responsibilities put out there by his boss do you really think he would have beat that home to that degree without McRobbie saying something? Come on man. Just face it. Your hatred of this man is more a reflection of you than him. He is doing what he was hired to do and requested of him.

 

 

 

[Old Friend 8,389]

9 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m inspired by your optimism here, I truly am because I recall very early on you (paraphrasing) alerting everting that Crean wasn’t the right guy and that he was over his skis. So why now are we defending Glass for keeping him around so long and allowing the program to be in such bad shape where the [cupboards were pretty damned bare]? If you could see it so early on, why did it take so long for him to act? In regards to the program, it’s really hard for us to go anywhere but up, we have missed the tourney more often than making it over the past 10 years and missed it the last 3. Yes there are things to be excited about but there always have been. There hasn’t been a season I can recall where I wasn’t excited about some incoming players or some returning players but the results on the court have been consistently underwhelming both under Crean and Archie. I’m not at all suggesting he isn’t the right guy but as you even said “jury is out on miller”. So far Glass held on to Crean way too long allowing him to bring the program back into a serious rebuild mode and hired a coach that is going into his 3rd season where the jury is still out - that’s not a great track record.

In regards to football, how does Iowa and Michigan State put together successful seasons and we can’t? How do we not compete with Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State at least in our better years and their down years at a minimum? 25 years ago if someone said Ohio State and Michigan could be better basketball programs than Indiana people would have laughed but it happened over time. Those football schools found a way to not just compete in basketball but win big and outpace traditional basketball schools. It can happen for IU football but it will take commitment, resources and time. There is no reason IU cannot be a consistent 7-8 win team each year.


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Crean recruited with a shotgun.  He often had over 50 offers out there, and he took whoever said yes.  "Creaning" sometimes if he liked one shiny thing over another.  Never built teams, and once in a while, the pieces fit.   His 2 conference titles were followed by 8th and 10th place finishes, so consistency was a problem.  Toward the end?  His recruiting suffered and he learned (well, maybe he hasn't learned because the pattern has continued at Georgia) the hard way that he needs more than one 5* kid to have a good team, and never seemed to buy into "get old and stay old."   I was low on him early because his half court offense was stagnant.  I watched Verdell Jones stand for 3 years.

I'm bullish on Archie because I saw changes last season late in the year.  I saw him jettison Jake Forrester, who just wasn't a Big Ten player, but WAS his recruit.   I saw improvement in  Green's defense and decision making, allowing him to be a far more efficient player.  I see what Archie's doing in the recruiting department.  All of that gives me optimism.

 

Glass was hamstrung on Crean.  Crean did just enough...almost all the time.   He was on the hot seat a couple of times, then had 2 good teams that bailed him out.  I thought the first extension was moronic.  Agree 100% there.  But the second one?  I didn't blame Glass at all for that.

Iowa is in a different division than we are, so I can't compare them at the moment.  They're also the only game in town over there, and there are lineman after lineman in Iowa.   That "strong farm kid" thing is very real.   Michigan State?   DeAntonio is a terrific coach they've had for a while.  Not a bad comparison, but they're not winning the division consistently.   I disagree that we're not competitive with the big 3.  Our problem isn't our ability to compete.  It's depth.  We'll see how that continues to improve

My only point is, Fred Glass is far from the sole reason for our frustration

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 hour ago, Iugradman said:

Fred Glass has been at IU for over a decade and we are still waiting for breakthroughs and respectability in football and basketball. Who else gets that long of a leash to show results? IU just needs to come out and say that they aren’t interested in winning at a high level. Nothing they do indicates a desire to. 

Penn State and Michigan State are not unbeatable juggernauts. And IU can’t even beat teams from the Western division of the conference, so the program’s issues go far beyond alignment. 

Softball had a losing record in conference play last season. Nobody cares about non-revenue sports. 

Whether or not anyone cares has nothing to do with your statement that Glass can't evaluate coaches.  

Everyone wants to win.  But....Fred Glass job?  To make money.  To educate athletes and represent Indiana University well.   He has done all of those things.   You think he (an alum and bigger fan than most) doesn't want to win?  He's put millions of dollars in facilities.  He's built the brand as much as he can.   Take a look at Michael McRobbie who's after east coast money and very much an academic idealogue.   HE is the one who doesn't care about winning. Not Glass.  And he's Glass' boss.   He's the one saying "make money."   I'll grant that Glass' athletic bill of rights is idiotic and hamstrings coaches.  But....McRobbie loves it and agrees with it.  

All I'm saying is you're putting too much blame on one guy

[Napleshoosier 9,781]

We are Hoosiers. Born and bred! McRobbie isn’t !


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[mdn82 25,456]

Obviously, the IU administration is awful with terrible priorities. Foot dragging on facilities upgrades, poor coaching hiring decisions, scandal after scandal, and no real pressure to win at a high level. Just because McRobbie, a fat Aussie with little regard for sports, thinks the athletics department is fine, when it is a running joke outside the IU bubble, does not make him right. Purdue and Kentucky fans love the job Glass is doing too. What does that say?

It doesn’t make him right. But he is going by the direction of his boss which I assume you have to do on a daily basis whether or not you agree with your boss. Your gripes are akin to believing Tom Pritchard should have Cody Zellers role and skillset and being pissed at Pritchard for playing the game the way he would. Obviously he didn’t have that skillset or was brought into the game to play the same type of game. We can agree or disagree all day long what his roles and responsibilities are and what they should be. But it doesn’t change the fact he is playing the game the way it was designed for him.

 

Glass is not a great AD when it comes to putting wins and losses on the board, but he is doing what the admin requests of him. In a follow up post you complained about a football only facility. Again. Come on man. Do you really think a $50-$100 million capital investment is a decision he is allowed to make? If you really do I feel sorry for you. Your hatred is so misguided it’s actually hilarious. Both Glass and McRobbie openly stated what they feel his responsibilities are and you can’t accept it due to your perception of what an ADs role is. With our current admin set up the way they are and their vision being the way it is, this whole discussion is so laughable. Why not just say this is what it would be if you were in charge? Because what you feel and what is reality couldn’t be further apart and it’s sad you just can’t see that.

 

 

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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

gradman more like madman amirite?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,738]

Yeah, I am pissed about the whole situation. So many wasted years under poor leadership. It just infuriates me how winning isn’t the top priority in athletics. Why the hell do you even play, coach, or administer sports if not to win? 

$$$. It’s all about the Benjamins baby!


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[mdn82 25,456]

$$$. It’s all about the Benjamins baby!


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Unfortunately true here.


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[mdn82 25,456]

Yeah, I am pissed about the whole situation. So many wasted years under poor leadership. It just infuriates me how winning isn’t the top priority in athletics. Why the hell do you even play, coach, or administer sports if not to win? 

I can agree with that. That’s why I want a complete overhaul at the top because I feel you can do both. Without changes at the top the expectations don’t change and we will be in the same boat ten years from now.


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[lucel15 3,052]

1 hour ago, Iugradman said:

Yeah, I am pissed about the whole situation. So many wasted years under poor leadership. It just infuriates me how winning isn’t the top priority in athletics. Why the hell do you even play, coach, or administer sports if not to win? 

Everyone gets what your saying....and again his hires in big sports come at questionable times, but with comments like this, this is why people don’t listen to your concerns....I’m not trying to attack you and ik you've referenced Mcrobbie several times in posts, but to administer sports you are referring to FG....he can only do so much to let’s say he’s even thought of going back off the 24 teams 1 school thing....let’s say hypothetically he and Tom Allen have tried to raise monies for football only facilities.....from people tied in to the board, president, everything....Mcrobbie can show his face at events but the matter of the fact is.....he’s doesn’t believe in investing in football to change their projectors for future seasons......in interviews he can fluff just like FG.....if I had to put $$ on it ,these two don’t speak much outside of board meetings, interviews, yearly ceremonies.....I think there’s an acknowledgment from football staff that it is a knock against them that their weight room is shared....and knowing ballou having trained under him for 4 years....he wants that weight room for his football players....that’s his oasis...his territory. Until the athletic department can do what they want under reasonable grounds, with their $$, and not seeing that money being funneled to academics...yes some schools do that like us, but when you look at % of $$ brought in from athletics then funneled to academics....our percentage is way higher compared to schools that make more $$. Yes I’m referencing what’s been talked about since last fall....and then this summer with Ostermans piece....until the athletics department doesn’t have to rely solely on big donations to do simple upgrades like locker rooms (latest thing for football and basketball)....and the athletics can use their money as they wish to keep up with the arms race in basketball and football...IU will continue to be behind until that day comes....

also to question the upgrades or attention to other sports is wild....there’s no reason to say screw other big sports....baseball and softball needed upgrades to their facilities....it was a laughing stock in big ten baseball....we would look like Rutgers high school baseball field....soccer which I feel like sells out every home match....is finally getting attention it needs...one of our most decorated programs is finally getting little $$ pushed towards some upgrades.....to me that’s crazy it took so long for them to get something a little better than what they have now. Wrestling and volleyball.....as a hs lay wrestling coach....Indiana hs wrestling is at the height of talent I’ve seen since mid 2000s. IU has lost out on top In state talent since around 2008-2010....the state of Indiana had I believe 8 kids competing for USA at junior worlds....several medaled....guess what...in that mix there’s about 20 state titles, 10 national junior titles and they all go to other big ten schools...ik you believe small sports don’t matter, but at Iowa....it’s a money maker, at osu its a money maker, penn state it’s a money maker, Michigan it’s a money maker, heck I believe it makes money at northwestern.....all those schools besides Iowa have taken talent out of the state....because we were so behind....heck Purdue capitalized when they updated back when I was in hs, all instate talent went there.....I’d say this year IU comes close to making money in wrestling, given what coach Escobedo is building there now that he has facilities....so until the Athletic department can use their monies they’ve earned, and not rely on rich donors....IU will still be behind. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

 

16 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Glass really had no choice but to give Tom Crean the contracts he did

 

Um... what? He could have fired him, or not extended him. As shown when he was fired no other top program wanted him. he couldn't leave. IU had all of the leverage. 

[mdn82 25,456]

 

 

Um... what? He could have fired him, or not extended him. As shown when he was fired no other top program wanted him. he couldn't leave. IU had all of the leverage. 

I had a long drawn out answer but it really isn’t that complicated. You would have fired the coach that was hired to bring you back while he was the number 1 team in the country (that’s when we extended him)? Not extend him? So leave a coach out there that took us from where we were to top team you dangle him so others can take him? No. There is a reason you don’t see many coaches with less than 3-4 years on their contract left. Recruiting.

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

33 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

 

 

Um... what? He could have fired him, or not extended him. As shown when he was fired no other top program wanted him. he couldn't leave. IU had all of the leverage. 

Right.  You fire a coach who has the #1 team in the country and who just won your first conference title since 2002.   Got it.   I already said the first extension in year 2 or whatever was idiotic.   So um....do you have any idea what you're talking about or are you just another agenda drive rube who wants Glass gone without even an elementary understanding of the big picture?  Who said other top programs wanted him?  Who said he was ever the right hire?    What I did say was Glass had no choice but to extend him when he did.  Why do I think you'd have called Glass an idiot had he fired Crean as you suggest after he had that team in 2013?

So ..um....that's what.

[Old Friend 8,389]

3 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I can agree with that. That’s why I want a complete overhaul at the top because I feel you can do both. Without changes at the top the expectations don’t change and we will be in the same boat ten years from now.


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Mind expanding on this?   I agree McRobbie should be gone for myriad reasons, but the BOT is a bunch of yes men and women who have their own agendas.   They won't vote him out.    HE has to fire Glass, and he won't because Glass is doing as he asks.   Glass won't fire Miller (and I have zero belief he should...in fact, I don't even understand the suggestion) or Allen right now because both programs are in relatively good shape; and both better than they were within the last decade and basketball since 2016.   

Everybody wants to win, including Fred Glass.   The suggestion above that he doesn't is moronic.   But you don't win by constantly changing coaches when things don't happen right away.   That's a recipe for losing and building a horrible culture no coach will be attracted to.   I guess I see Indiana Athletics as on an upward trend.  I know there are people who want an immediate fix.  Me?  I want consistency.  I want to get old and stay old.  That doesn't happen overnight.  But in basketball?  It's happening.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

10 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

I had a long drawn out answer but it really isn’t that complicated. You would have fired the coach that was hired to bring you back while he was the number 1 team in the country (that’s when we extended him)? Not extend him? So leave a coach out there that took us from where we were to top team you dangle him so others can take him? No. There is a reason you don’t see many coaches with less than 3-4 years on their contract left. Recruiting.

 

 

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First of all its not complicated why an AD should not have extended him. Yes we did have the #1 pre-season team going into that year. However, you need to take a look at all of the data points, and not just select a la carte what improves your own narrative while ignoring the underlying issues. My theory is that either you're upset because you fully believed in Crean and to this day still refuse to believe that you were wrong by drinking the Kool-Aid he was pouring,. Just admit it was a terrible decision by Glass to extend him.

 

First:  what was happening behind closed doors: Crean was undoubtedly rubbing people the wrong way, having his own players conspire behind his back (per sources regarding Yogi and Hanner during the 2012-2013 season), not having a practice schedule, the supposed story of recruiting Kyrie, etc. I don't know all of the stories. but there was enough by Summer 2012 where there were a lot of unanswered questions... Now some of these were things the public didn't have access too at the time, but the AD did, and this should have been factored into his extension decision.

 

Second: Don't forget that IU had other options besides Crean that IU could have went after for their next head coach. Brad Stevens was a coach in the State of Indiana that supposedly had in his Butler contract that the only 2 places he could leave for within the college ranks was Indiana and Duke... so Before you say "So your plan was to fire him with the #1 pre-season team?"... No, i'm not saying that. I'm saying he was never a proven coach at IU. What did he prove outside of beating UK and having 1 nice season out of 4? Without Crean having proved anything it made more sense to wait another year to see what he could do. Additionally, if you as the coach just were rewarded with a massive contract for the results he had, what message does that send? not a competitive one. It made more sense to evaluate him after the year was over by evaluating the situation within the program by interviewing the players, etc. I mean he made S16 rings one year and then cut down the nets after a loss. Truly bizarre stuff happening that looking back were huge red flags

 

Third: Indiana had absolutely all the leverage. Where was Crean going to go? He couldn't have gone to the NBA, he couldn't have left for a better college job... You're saying recruiting? That is a short sided decision that shouldn't impact a coaching decision. Also was Crean really going to be hampered by his contract that he wasn't going to be able to recruit? that notion is a complete farce. Recruiting would have been the same for the 2013-2014 year. However, the recruits for 2014-2015 may have been different because the fan base would have not allowed that contract extension to ever take place. 

 

Glass could have happily extended Crean at the END of the season, but he didn't. He ignored all the red flags, he ignored the better coaches within the state that wanted to coach there, and because of that our AD signed one of the worst extensions in all of college basketball. BTW,  I completely understand that firing a coach with a pre-season #1 team is ludicrous... But choosing to wait less than 365 days before handing him that extension is more than reasonable.

 

For complete disclosure, I also have been adamant on here that I firmly believe Chris Beard is a better coach than Archie Miller. I say that very objectively because I'm sure you're thinking to yourself "well what would SouthernIndianaHoosier2 do if he were AD".. As AD  I'm moving on to Chris Beard at the end of this year, barring a miracle.