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If you think glass sets the budget for the athletic department you are insane. He doesn’t make the decision for how much the sports Programs get or which projects get approved.


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7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Football and men's basketball are our two most important programs and both have been disasters under him. He's been the athletic director for 11 full basketball seasons and 10 full football seasons. The basketball team has missed the NCAA tournament in 7 of his 11 seasons. We missed it four times in the previous 30 years. The football team has had zero winning seasons during his tenure and only two bowl appearances. 

With that said, he's not to blame for everything. There's only so much he can do as the athletic director. If the university's goal for the athletic department is to raise revenue then he has been a big success. But, if the university's goal is to field elite athletic programs, they've failed big time over Fred's tenure. 

Basketball has been 80% embarrassing under Glass. Football has been 99% embarrassing under Glass. Realignment wont help. We dont beat B1G West teams either.

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23 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Illinois a few years ago. 

 

23 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

If Fred understands the importance of football and basketball, why did he nickel and dime them for years? Why did Archie have to demand basic things like post practice meals and a modern locker room? Why did Fred ignore the APR issues under Crean? Why did it take until 2019 to renovate the football locker room and pay competitive salaries to assistant coaches?

 

22 minutes ago, Feathery said:

He didn’t nickel and dime basketball. Crean and staff were paid very well. He allowed Crean the largest recruiting budget in the country. That’s not nickel and diming. 

 

16 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

If Fred loved IU he would resign. But he prefers to collect his huge salary while never being held accountable.

 

10 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

So Fred is a patsy, a patsy who makes $561k a year. Where can I get that gig?

 

 

Here are some FACTS:

Quote

Time will tell whether Glass asks too much. But an analysis of Indiana’s year-over-year financial commitment to men’s basketball suggests he’s willing to back his program as it works to meet his aims.

“I just rejected that,” Glass said, speaking to criticism leveled at those expectations. “I think part of the reason and basis for rejecting that is, we’re doing all the things the very most-elite programs are doing. We measure ourselves against the three or four teams in the country that are widely viewed as basketball royalty. Our program doesn’t want for anything.”

According to NCAA financial reports obtained by IndyStar via an open records request and a USA TODAY review of those reports, Indiana reported greater men’s basketball revenues in 2017 than any other Big Ten school, and greater expenses than every program in the league except Michigan State.

The financial reports are required annually by the NCAA from 13 of the Big Ten’s 14 schools. As a private school, Northwestern is not obliged to share its report.

In most cases, the gap was significant.

Quote

In the Big Ten alone, IU was one of only four schools — Ohio State, Michigan State and Illinois being the others — to report expenses in eight figures. And only Michigan State and Wisconsin came within $5 million of the $24,909,573 in men’s basketball-specific revenue IU reported to collegiate athletics’ governing body.

Quote

In 2017, IU athletics reported revenues totaling $106,139,192, and expenses totaling $106,131,819, yielding a surplus of slightly more than $7,000.

It’s against that financial backdrop that Glass is happy to sign off on one of the Big Ten’s largest basketball budgets.

In 2017, IU spent more on coaching salaries, game expenses and guarantees (money paid to nonconference opponents) than any program in the conference. Only Nebraska reported more in recruiting expenses, and only Rutgers spent more on support staff.

In some cases, Indiana’s spending noticeably outpaced that of its competitors.

Quote

Last year, IU reported more than $5 million under the heading “coaching salaries, benefits and bonuses,” joined only by Michigan State at that spending point. It reported more than $1.62 million in guarantees, nearly double the outlay of any other Big Ten school. And IU was the only Big Ten program to report seven-figure game expenses, what the report describes as “expenses other than travel which are necessary for intercollegiate athletics competition.” Those totaled more than $1.3 million last year.

IU also reported $925,556 in severance payments, the result of Crean's firing.

Spending has increased in recent seasons, though not dramatically. IU reported men’s basketball expenses of $11.4 million in 2015, and $12.2 million in 2016.

This comes on the heels of a study, reported Monday in the Wall Street Journal, suggesting Indiana is college basketball’s second most-valuable program nationally.

The study, written by Indiana University-Purdue University Columbus professor Ryan Brewer, assigned programs value based on factors which would determine their cost if they could be sold like an NBA franchise — expenses and revenues, cash flow, growth projections and so on.

Indiana clocked in at $243 million, just behind list-topper Kentucky at $246.6 million.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2018/04/04/iu-basketball-spending-our-program-doesnt-want-anything/485151002/

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4 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Basketball has been 80% embarrassing under Glass. Football has been 99% embarrassing under Glass. Realignment wont help. We dont beat B1G West teams either.

It'd be one thing if the other sports were all killing it, but they're not. I won't pretend to be well-versed in IU women's basketball history because I'm not, but they've made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years under Glass. The baseball team won 2 conference titles in 10 years under Glass. Soccer, like you said, he hasn't screwed up. But everything else as a whole has been very mediocre. Football and basketball have been awful. We're a below average big ten athletic program. 

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4 minutes ago, iubb said:

I really don't care about how much revenue we're making, to be honest. None of it is ending up in my pocket. I'm a fan, so I want to see IU win at things. They're not. 

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9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Football and men's basketball are our two most important programs and both have been disasters under him. He's been the athletic director for 11 full basketball seasons and 10 full football seasons. The basketball team has missed the NCAA tournament in 7 of his 11 seasons. We missed it four times in the previous 30 years. The football team has had zero winning seasons during his tenure and only two bowl appearances. 

With that said, he's not to blame for everything. There's only so much he can do as the athletic director. If the university's goal for the athletic department is to raise revenue then he has been a big success. But, if the university's goal is to field elite athletic programs, they've failed big time over Fred's tenure. 

Okay, let;s start with football.   You and I already know we look at this differently, so let's just discuss it and forget the battle.   Indiana went to a bowl game in 1993.   Didn't go to another until 2007.  They've been to two under Glass and his hire of Kevin Wilson was a good one.  SO while "just two bowl appearances" isn't what any of us want; it's double what Indiana had done since 1993.  I'll submit IU Football has been a disaster for most of its history; so this isn't a Glass problem; and in fact, under Glass, the program has actually improved in many ways, not the least of which is in facilities.  They are recruiting better.  They have better assistant coaches...   Unless you believe Indiana can be a top football program (and I do not believe that based on over 100 years of history), it is what it is and it's no greater disaster now than it has ever been.  In fact, I'd say it's far better....but yes.  Tom Allen has to win more.  No doubt about it.  All of that said, the Big Ten has screwed Indiana football.   I'm not sure what Glass can do about that.   His hire of Allen can be called into question; but we're still just in year 2 of that tenure and recruiting has taken a giant step forward.  IU's division will play a much larger role in our success or lack of it than anything else, and again, that's not a Glass issue.

Glass didn't  hire Tom Crean.  We can all complain about his lack of foresight to not hire Brad Stevens, but that's a little nitpicky.   Blaming Glass for men's basketball's disaster doesn't make sense to me.  Crean did just enough to keep his job for 9 seasons.  Yeah, he needed time to start over.  Then he beat #1 ranked Kentucky.  Then he went to the Sweet 16.  Then he won the Big Ten and went to the Sweet 16 with a team that was ranked #1 in the country.   Then he finished 8th the following season.  Then, 2 years later, he won the Big Ten again.  Then he finished 10th.  And then he was fired.   Help me with your perspective on when Glass was to blame for not firing Crean or what Glass should have done to mitigate the disaster?   I don't see a "good time" to have fired Crean before he did.   And since Glass didn't hire Crean, I find it very difficult to blame him for his first 9 seasons on the job.

Then he hires Archie.  We are in year 2.  Crean's last recruiting class was Durham, Smith, and Moore.  When he left, so did Annunoby, Bryant, and Blackmon.   Davis tore his achilles.,  Hunter missed an entire season.  Thompson has basically missed two,.  We were reliant on DeVonte Green and freshmen, one of whom was only here because he had to be, to compliment Morgan; and it was successful for a while....but unsustainable when Phinisee went down with a concussion leaving IU with 2 guards and thin everywhere.    Moore, Forrester, and Anderson were dead weight all season.  I suspect one or more of those kids will be gone.  McRoberts was hurt all year. Fitzner was what he was.  A 5 PPG guy from St. Mary's who was over his head against better players...brought to Indiana to fill a couple of needs and was probably counted on more than was fair.

I just don't see Fred Glass as culpable in the disaster unless he lets this go on too long.   He fired Crean for lack of consistent results.  Why wouldn't he terminate Archie for the same reason?   He can't do that in year 2, and I know you know that as well as I do.

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9 minutes ago, iubb said:

SO IU HAS SPENT MORE THAN ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE BIG TEN AND HAD THESE RESULTS!!!!! How is this helping your argument. Someone who has this budget with these results is clearly a waste of capital. I'm laughing. 

 

Glass: Look at how much money we're making and spending to be an ELITE program!

IUBB: misses 7 tournaments in 11 years. 

 

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SO IU HAS SPENT MORE THAN ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE BIG TEN AND HAD THESE RESULTS!!!!! How is this helping your argument. Someone who has this budget with these results is clearly a waste of capital. I'm laughing.    Glass: Look at how much money we're making and spending to be an ELITE program!

IUBB: misses 7 tournaments in 11 years. 

 

 

 

 You are dealing with recruits. Teenagers. Schools are at the mercy of them and whichever school they want to choose. You can roll out all the stops to wow a kid but if they have their heart set on a certain school

There is nothing you can do about it.

 

There is a reason why some schools have gone as far as to “bribe” them, which is why we have all these investigations and people going to jail.

 

I’m glad IU isn’t going down those “shady” paths.

 

 —-

 

Edit: I honestly think NCAA athletes should be paid a salary like most professional athletes are. That would level the playing field. But this is the NCAA, one of the most corrupt Organizations next to the IOC AND FIFIA

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

SO IU HAS SPENT MORE THAN ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE BIG TEN AND HAD THESE RESULTS!!!!! How is this helping your argument. Someone who has this budget with these results is clearly a waste of capital. I'm laughing. 

 

Glass: Look at how much money we're making and spending to be an ELITE program!

IUBB: misses 7 tournaments in 11 years. 

 

Okay, but that's the superficial way to debate it.  See above.  How much of this is really on Glass?   In a couple of years?   I'm with you.  But he didn't hire Crean, and Crean left IU with a team that finished 10th in the conference and no roster.  Archie has had ONE recruiting class play for him; and despite the record STILL almost made the NCAA Tournament.   Help me with Glass' culpability in where the basketball team is.   He fired Crean when he should have; and both major sport coaches have coached 2 seasons.  What are we missing?   Broaden the argument to include all of the facts and details.... not just the headlines.

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So Fred is a patsy, a patsy who makes $561k a year. Where can I get that gig?
That is a riduculous salary for a so called public employee. Coaches i get but fred should not make more than 200k.

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It'd be one thing if the other sports were all killing it, but they're not. I won't pretend to be well-versed in IU women's basketball history because I'm not, but they've made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years under Glass. The baseball team won 2 conference titles in 10 years under Glass. Soccer, like you said, he hasn't screwed up. But everything else as a whole has been very mediocre. Football and basketball have been awful. We're a below average big ten athletic program. 
It would be awfully hard for glass to screw up soccer. The program sells itself

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3 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Crean should have been fired no later than 2015. Glass ignored the red flags in the program like the crappy APR and poor instate recruiting. You don’t wait until things get really bad before making a change. The APR Crean left Archie was so bad that Archie couldn’t manage the roster the way he wanted to when he got here.

As for football, Allen has blown several very winnable games due to piss poor coaching. Purdue hired a new football coach at the same time Allen was brought on and they have won the last two Bucket games and gone bowling.

Everything here is your opinion.   Glass was between a rock and a hard place in 2015; and then Crean won the Big Ten the following year.  He fired him when it made sense to fire him.

Allen has coached 2 seasons and a lot of things are improving.  You can't just fire coaches because you believe they blow a game or two with bad decisions or mistakes.  (I think you can for the cheap way his teams play...but that's another discussion) If you do that, you'll never be able to hire anyone because nobody will coach in that environment.  I get that you're pissed; but it doesn't work that way.   It's not a reality TV show.   Both Allen and Miller have coached just 2 seasons.   I don't disagree with your assessment of Allen, but despite that, he won't be fired for those reasons yet.  YET.

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23 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It'd be one thing if the other sports were all killing it, but they're not. I won't pretend to be well-versed in IU women's basketball history because I'm not, but they've made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years under Glass. The baseball team won 2 conference titles in 10 years under Glass. Soccer, like you said, he hasn't screwed up. But everything else as a whole has been very mediocre. Football and basketball have been awful. We're a below average big ten athletic program. 

Women's basketball and baseball were a joke for decades before Glass.  As was the field.  It wasn't even a good high school field; and now we host NCAA Regionals there.   The baseball program is worlds better than it was.   Women's basketball much the same.

Men's basketball is more complicated (see above) than just blaming Glass; and football has had its own issues plus the horribly aligned divisions put Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland way behind the 8 ball.  I guess it's just not as simple as saying "blame Glass.:

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If you think glass sets the budget for the athletic department you are insane. He doesn’t make the decision for how much the sports Programs get or which projects get approved.


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So Fred is a patsy, a patsy who makes $561k a year. Where can I get that gig?

Be the head of any major business? This is actually how businesses operate. Directors don’t make budgets. They are responsible to adhere to what is set up for them. You don’t think he asks for it? Again that is normal business. They ask him to set up what he needs. The bean counters tell the board, President, and the Director what their actual budget is. They along with the president set KPI’s are. Like seriously this is a first grade convo in how a budget is set for a major corporation. It doesn’t make it less real just because you don’t believe it.


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Everything here is your opinion.   Glass was between a rock and a hard place in 2015; and then Crean won the Big Ten the following year.  He fired him when it made sense to fire him.
Allen has coached 2 seasons and a lot of things are improving.  You can't just fire coaches because you believe they blow a game or two with bad decisions or mistakes.  (I think you can for the cheap way his teams play...but that's another discussion) If you do that, you'll never be able to hire anyone because nobody will coach in that environment.  I get that you're pissed; but it doesn't work that way.   It's not a reality TV show.   Both Allen and Miller have coached just 2 seasons.   I don't disagree with your assessment of Allen, but despite that, he won't be fired for those reasons yet.  YET.
Crean should have been fired right after losing to whicita state. Big mismake as the writing was on the wall at that point

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3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Women's basketball and baseball were a joke for decades before Glass.  As was the field.  It wasn't even a good high school field; and now we host NCAA Regionals there.   The baseball program is worlds better than it was.   Women's basketball much the same.

Men's basketball is more complicated (see above) than just blaming Glass; and football has had its own issues plus the horribly aligned divisions put Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland way behind the 8 ball.  I guess it's just not as simple as saying "blame Glass.:

Just to play devils advocate. What other Big 10 schools haven't spend money on huge capital campaigns following the increased School enrollment after the great recession? Another poster had mentioned that although we are taking steps forward, we still have worse facilities than Nebraska. If every AD is improving their facilities, how can we really say that is a strong point of Glass?

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3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Okay, let;s start with football.   You and I already know we look at this differently, so let's just discuss it and forget the battle.   Indiana went to a bowl game in 1993.   Didn't go to another until 2007.  They've been to two under Glass and his hire of Kevin Wilson was a good one.  SO while "just two bowl appearances" isn't what any of us want; it's double what Indiana had done since 1993.  I'll submit IU Football has been a disaster for most of its history; so this isn't a Glass problem; and in fact, under Glass, the program has actually improved in many ways, not the least of which is in facilities.  They are recruiting better.  They have better assistant coaches...   Unless you believe Indiana can be a top football program (and I do not believe that based on over 100 years of history), it is what it is and it's no greater disaster now than it has ever been.  In fact, I'd say it's far better....but yes.  Tom Allen has to win more.  No doubt about it.  All of that said, the Big Ten has screwed Indiana football.   I'm not sure what Glass can do about that.   His hire of Allen can be called into question; but we're still just in year 2 of that tenure and recruiting has taken a giant step forward.  IU's division will play a much larger role in our success or lack of it than anything else, and again, that's not a Glass issue.

Glass didn't  hire Tom Crean.  We can all complain about his lack of foresight to not hire Brad Stevens, but that's a little nitpicky.   Blaming Glass for men's basketball's disaster doesn't make sense to me.  Crean did just enough to keep his job for 9 seasons.  Yeah, he needed time to start over.  Then he beat #1 ranked Kentucky.  Then he went to the Sweet 16.  Then he won the Big Ten and went to the Sweet 16 with a team that was ranked #1 in the country.   Then he finished 8th the following season.  Then, 2 years later, he won the Big Ten again.  Then he finished 10th.  And then he was fired.   Help me with your perspective on when Glass was to blame for not firing Crean or what Glass should have done to mitigate the disaster?   I don't see a "good time" to have fired Crean before he did.   And since Glass didn't hire Crean, I find it very difficult to blame him for his first 9 seasons on the job.

Then he hires Archie.  We are in year 2.  Crean's last recruiting class was Durham, Smith, and Moore.  When he left, so did Annunoby, Bryant, and Blackmon.   Davis tore his achilles.,  Hunter missed an entire season.  Thompson has basically missed two,.  We were reliant on DeVonte Green and freshmen, one of whom was only here because he had to be, to compliment Morgan; and it was successful for a while....but unsustainable when Phinisee went down with a concussion leaving IU with 2 guards and thin everywhere.    Moore, Forrester, and Anderson were dead weight all season.  I suspect one or more of those kids will be gone.  McRoberts was hurt all year. Fitzner was what he was.  A 5 PPG guy from St. Mary's who was over his head against better players...brought to Indiana to fill a couple of needs and was probably counted on more than was fair.

I just don't see Fred Glass as culpable in the disaster unless he lets this go on too long.   He fired Crean for lack of consistent results.  Why wouldn't he terminate Archie for the same reason?   He can't do that in year 2, and I know you know that as well as I do.

Football has certainly been better than it has in the past by IU standards, but overall it still has been pretty bad. We are making improvements, particularly in recruiting, but we still lag behind most other big 10 schools. The class we just inked is the best in program history (I think that's what I read) and it's still in the bottom half of the conference. Just sucks that we are in a loaded conference. We got screwed by the people who made the divisions. I don't think we can become a top football program, but I see no reason why we can't become a program that consistently wins 6-7 games and goes bowling more often than not. Northwestern did it. They had been to only one bowl game in program history before 1995, and they've been to 14 of them since then. And they face the problem of tougher academic standards that we don't have to worry about. 

I don't know if there's even anything that Glass could have done differently to stop the disaster that has been IU basketball over the last decade. There have been some things outside of his control that have brought it to where it is now. Like you said, Crean did just enough to last how long he lasted. It could be the case that we'd be in a similar position if someone else had been the AD. But, even if it's not his fault, he's going to get a lot of the blame for the team missing the tournament in 7 of 11 years under his watch. I liked the Archie hire and I think he made a good decision in hiring him. I don't blame Glass for the past two seasons. Crean left a mess. Despite the struggles, I still believe that Archie is capable of building a great thing here. If Archie doesn't eventually get it going though, I could see Fred being told to leave with him. 

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19 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Everything here is your opinion.   Glass was between a rock and a hard place in 2015; and then Crean won the Big Ten the following year.  He fired him when it made sense to fire him.

Allen has coached 2 seasons and a lot of things are improving.  You can't just fire coaches because you believe they blow a game or two with bad decisions or mistakes.  (I think you can for the cheap way his teams play...but that's another discussion) If you do that, you'll never be able to hire anyone because nobody will coach in that environment.  I get that you're pissed; but it doesn't work that way.   It's not a reality TV show.   Both Allen and Miller have coached just 2 seasons.   I don't disagree with your assessment of Allen, but despite that, he won't be fired for those reasons yet.  YET.

Appreciate your thoughts but we have suffered a decade of losing under Glass.  We have been passed in football by our arch rival (evidence is head to head). We sit by and are supposed to be patient when a school like Ohio St can beat us like a drum in basketball with a new coach and seemingly less talent (we are told).  Glass screwed up letting Lynch stay. He screwed up by giving Wilson an extension then firing him. He either didn’t know what was going on with Wilson or tried to ignore it and couldn’t.  Whichever way that is spun is negligent. He let Crean stay on far too long and let the program become a joke with players getting arrested, suspended, and forced out.

Ask yourself this: Would this failure be tolerated for as long as it has at any other blue blood or serious program?

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7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Football has certainly been better than it has in the past by IU standards, but overall it still has been pretty bad. We are making improvements, particularly in recruiting, but we still lag behind most other big 10 schools. The class we just inked is the best in program history (I think that's what I read) and it's still in the bottom half of the conference. Just sucks that we are in a loaded conference. We got screwed by the people who made the divisions. I don't think we can become a top football program, but I see no reason why we can't become a program that consistently wins 6-7 games and goes bowling more often than not. Northwestern did it. They had been to only one bowl game in program history before 1995, and they've been to 14 of them since then. And they face the problem of tougher academic standards that we don't have to worry about. 

I don't know if there's even anything that Glass could have done differently to stop the disaster that has been IU basketball over the last decade. There have been some things outside of his control that have brought it to where it is now. Like you said, Crean did just enough to last how long he lasted. It could be the case that we'd be in a similar position if someone else had been the AD. But, even if it's not his fault, he's going to get a lot of the blame for the team missing the tournament in 7 of 11 years under his watch. I liked the Archie hire and I think he made a good decision in hiring him. I don't blame Glass for the past two seasons. Crean left a mess. Despite the struggles, I still believe that Archie is capable of building a great thing here. If Archie doesn't eventually get it going though, I could see Fred being told to leave with him. 

I don't disagree with any of this, really.   It just doesn't say "fire Glass" to me.  Northwestern did it without being in the same division as Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State.   Indiana is basically 0-3 starting every season and has to go 6-3 just to get a bowl.   They're hamstrung.   We got screwed.   We have (along with Maryland and Rutgers) the worst and hardest uphill battle in college sports and it's not close.

Damn, man.  You and I are starting to agree more and more.   What are we going to do now????

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