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Bigred3588

Inclined to Give Archie a Break

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I have a question about the APR issue. Several have repeated that the Crean recruits had to be retained because of APR. Why if they never enrolled? I thought it was because no one better was available in April 2017. I also heard it was because we had OG, Bryant, Blackmon leave early. Why do U.K. and Duke not have problems? Were our guys not going to class and their players were in good academic standing?

The incoming recruits wouldn’t have mattered due to them never having been on campus. The main issue there is we would have have one maybe two serviceable players beyond freshman. You can’t win that way. As for Duke or Kentucky they don’t have players transferring mid season. Scholarships are renewed annually. If you stay in school the whole year you don’t get dinged.


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Watching the effort and execution with which Purdue plays after a tough start; the bar has been set and he should accept no less from Indiana's players.  They either understand where they are or not.   The more I watch Purdue, the more upset I get because Indiana is at least AS talented.  They are such an incredibly different team than we are, and there's no way that should be acceptable on any level.

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Watching the effort and execution with which Purdue plays after a tough start; the bar has been set and he should accept no less from Indiana's players.  They either understand where they are or not.   The more I watch Purdue, the more upset I get because Indiana is at least AS talented.  They are such an incredibly different team than we are, and there's no way that should be acceptable on any level.

I agree here and is part of the reason I chose not to watch. I get too worked up about it. I’m choosing to still believe it’s the process of building a “culture,” as the article discussed above. Watching the score from the Purdue game, it lead me down a rabbit hole...Painter (and maybe I’m just bitter here) is a good basketball coach. However, I’ve thought for some time that he might actually be worse case scenario. Think for a minute: As one unpopular AD once stated, I don’t think we should have to shy away from expectations at IU. Painter has a winning percentage of like 67. Yet, what has he won in 13 years? 2 BIG titles and has gone to 4 sweet 16s. I’m not ready to accept mediocrity. I respect the culture that he has built and am willing to give CAM more time to build it.


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I agree here and is part of the reason I chose not to watch. I get too worked up about it. I’m choosing to still believe it’s the process of building a “culture,” as the article discussed above. Watching the score from the Purdue game, it lead me down a rabbit hole...Painter (and maybe I’m just bitter here) is a good basketball coach. However, I’ve thought for some time that he might actually be worse case scenario. Think for a minute: As one unpopular AD once stated, I don’t think we should have to shy away from expectations at IU. Painter has a winning percentage of like 67. Yet, what has he won in 13 years? 2 BIG titles and has gone to 4 sweet 16s. I’m not ready to accept mediocrity. I respect the culture that he has built and am willing to give CAM more time to build it.


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I meant to add that culture is a good start and has to be the foundation. I choose to believe that Archie can build wins (and meaningful ones) on his culture. Granted, we are way below the level we need to be at now. A saying about how Rome was built comes to mind...


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The fact of the matter is we need to get a higher talent level that plays just as hard. I don’t like the MSU program for what it’s covered up but they get talent and that talent plays hard. That’s what Archie needs to build at IU. He also needs to find that happy medium of talented enough but not too talented to leave after a year. Yes, elite one and done talent is nice but I don’t want IU building a program like that.


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24 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

The fact of the matter is we need to get a higher talent level that plays just as hard. I don’t like the MSU program for what it’s covered up but they get talent and that talent plays hard. That’s what Archie needs to build at IU. He also needs to find that happy medium of talented enough but not too talented to leave after a year. Yes, elite one and done talent is nice but I don’t want IU building a program like that.


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I agree completely.  I know I get very frustrated and overract, but the majority of this team doesn't seem to mesh well with Archie's style of play.  I do fault Archie some, but most of this is by far on the players.  I've been in Archie's shoes (not near his level, but very competitive youth baseball), it's so frustrating when the team has so much potential, but for some reason it just doesn't click.  Luckily for me, my team turned around an 0-7 start to finish t-1st.  The team finally clicked and every team was doomed that we came acrossed.  

I agree with how I want the IU program built.  It's nice getting some 1-and-done's, but I want a lot of the 3 and 4* talent that is needed to have as upperclassmen.  Get the top talent when you can, but you can't sacrifice getting those lower rated guys that will contribute in years 2-4.  

Like a lot of fans right now, it's very irritating and hard to watch this team right now.  Do I want Archie Miller tossed, heck no, but I am a little concerned because of this team.  It was a little gamble getting him anyway, but I think next year will be the year he's most under a microscope if things don't go well.  Two top recruiting classes back to back.  However, I am looking for to next season if it looks like this:

Starters: Trayce, Keion, Justin, Rob, and Al.  Having DeRon, Race, Jerome, Clifton, Demezi, and Armaan on the bench seems like a very deep and balanced team.  I am leaving Devonte off the list, I am curious if he will be around next season (I've heard nothing, just pure speculation at this point).  

I will always support my Hoosiers (unless there's a Pitino/Louisville type issue) regardless of how frustrated the team plays.  Just tired of not seeing the boys giving all out heart efforts.  

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1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

Watching the effort and execution with which Purdue plays after a tough start; the bar has been set and he should accept no less from Indiana's players.  They either understand where they are or not.   The more I watch Purdue, the more upset I get because Indiana is at least AS talented.  They are such an incredibly different team than we are, and there's no way that should be acceptable on any level.

I agree and that's probably to biggest disappointment.  We are a talented team and is underachieving badly.  We beat very good teams in Marquette and Louisville, and they are both now in the top 25.  That wasn't a fluke, this team has it in them every night to do that, but it's choosing not to and it's so difficult to watch.  I don't blame Coach Miller a lot, but he does need to change things up because this team just isn't getting it.  

I say start benching starters right now.  We are losing anyway, and it's time to start sending a message that the lack of effort and heart will never be tolerated.  Doesn't matter if you play bad, but play bad with everything you got because the more you get down on yourself on the court, the more you let your teammates down.  I highly doubt Coach Miller will bench some starters, but something needs to be changed to try and reach these guys.

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18 minutes ago, JaybobHoosier said:

 something needs to be changed to try and reach these guys.

A famous quote from one of our former coaches:  "You f----ing  guys will run until you can't eat supper. ... Now you better understand that right now. This is absolute f---ing bulls---t. Now I'll f---ing run your a-- right into the ground." 

I'm not necessarily a proponent of RMK's methods, but maybe this is what they need. Or, like Crash Davis said in Bull Durham: "They're kids. Scare 'em." 

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I agree completely.  I know I get very frustrated and overract, but the majority of this team doesn't seem to mesh well with Archie's style of play.  I do fault Archie some, but most of this is by far on the players.  I've been in Archie's shoes (not near his level, but very competitive youth baseball), it's so frustrating when the team has so much potential, but for some reason it just doesn't click.  Luckily for me, my team turned around an 0-7 start to finish t-1st.  The team finally clicked and every team was doomed that we came acrossed.  
I agree with how I want the IU program built.  It's nice getting some 1-and-done's, but I want a lot of the 3 and 4* talent that is needed to have as upperclassmen.  Get the top talent when you can, but you can't sacrifice getting those lower rated guys that will contribute in years 2-4.  
Like a lot of fans right now, it's very irritating and hard to watch this team right now.  Do I want Archie Miller tossed, heck no, but I am a little concerned because of this team.  It was a little gamble getting him anyway, but I think next year will be the year he's most under a microscope if things don't go well.  Two top recruiting classes back to back.  However, I am looking for to next season if it looks like this:
Starters: Trayce, Keion, Justin, Rob, and Al.  Having DeRon, Race, Jerome, Clifton, Demezi, and Armaan on the bench seems like a very deep and balanced team.  I am leaving Devonte off the list, I am curious if he will be around next season (I've heard nothing, just pure speculation at this point).  
I will always support my Hoosiers (unless there's a Pitino/Louisville type issue) regardless of how frustrated the team plays.  Just tired of not seeing the boys giving all out heart efforts.  

Things you can control; attitude and effort. Your shot might be off on some nights and your handle might not be as tight as it can be. You can always 100% control your attitude and effort. This team is soft both mentally and physically. That doesn’t seem to be Archie’s way and that gives me hope.

A team eventually takes on its coaches personality. We saw it with Crean, eventually. It was just a wacky, crazy, helter skelter way. The difference between the former regime and this one is this one is closer to IU basketball that I remember. We just have to get through the culture change.

I would shoot a little higher with my 4 year players in 4* and low 5* talent. I don’t see Phin leaving early, Hunter probably won’t be gone before his eligibility is up, Anderson will graduate at IU, Brooks I don’t see as OAD, ditto for Jackson-Davis.

I’d love to see Smith along with Al and Phin be some continuity for Jackson-Davis, Hunter, and possibly Brooks but, man, he misses a lot of rotations, goes for the highlight, and doesn’t play smart. If he continues on that path I’d like to see what Hunter can do. I still have hope for Forrester and Moore. Moore needs a better feel for the game but he’ll need to contribute something next season along with Moore. Thompson needs to get healthy to contribute. Anderson is in the same boat as Moore. He looks lost and that messes with your confidence.

As stated before, the culture and buy in needs to change. We aren’t moving forward until guys take a hard look in the mirror and decide what they are and will be. There will be talent on the roster in the coming years but we won’t win big until everyone buys in.


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10 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:


Things you can control; attitude and effort. Your shot might be off on some nights and your handle might not be as tight as it can be. You can always 100% control your attitude and effort. This team is soft both mentally and physically. That doesn’t seem to be Archie’s way and that gives me hope.

A team eventually takes on its coaches personality. We saw it with Crean, eventually. It was just a wacky, crazy, helter skelter way. The difference between the former regime and this one is this one is closer to IU basketball that I remember. We just have to get through the culture change.

I would shoot a little higher with my 4 year players in 4* and low 5* talent. I don’t see Phin leaving early, Hunter probably won’t be gone before his eligibility is up, Anderson will graduate at IU, Brooks I don’t see as OAD, ditto for Jackson-Davis.

I’d love to see Smith along with Al and Phin be some continuity for Jackson-Davis, Hunter, and possibly Brooks but, man, he misses a lot of rotations, goes for the highlight, and doesn’t play smart. If he continues on that path I’d like to see what Hunter can do. I still have hope for Forrester and Moore. Moore needs a better feel for the game but he’ll need to contribute something next season along with Moore. Thompson needs to get healthy to contribute. Anderson is in the same boat as Moore. He looks lost and that messes with your confidence.

As stated before, the culture and buy in needs to change. We aren’t moving forward until guys take a hard look in the mirror and decide what they are and will be. There will be talent on the roster in the coming years but we won’t win big until everyone buys in.


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You definitely said it way better than I could lol.  With Moore, Anderson, and Forrester (forgot about him:(), they just need to work on being more comfortable and getting used to the speed.  When they play, you can tell they really struggle with the speed of the game.  If Moore could just move his feet faster, he would get a lot more time on the floor.  That will come, but it gets him out of position on defense.  He has a lot of potential as a good role player, just needs to get up to speed.  

To me, Smith is probably the most frustrating player to watch.  In terms of potential, he is probably only behind Romeo on this team, he can just flat be a darn good ball player if he would just be confident.  I think he is a decent shooter and overall player right now, but his confidence is so low.  I also don't think it helps, just my opinion, that he feels the ball has to always go to Romeo and Juwan.  Of course it should, but I mean in more of a smart playmaking area, if that makes any sense.  He is so passive at times that he makes bad judgements.  I have no doubt Justin can be a 12p and 7r average guy, and that's what this team really needs from him.  Get garbage buckets because he is a good rebounder, and attack/shoot when appropriate.  

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You definitely said it way better than I could lol.  With Moore, Anderson, and Forrester (forgot about him:(), they just need to work on being more comfortable and getting used to the speed.  When they play, you can tell they really struggle with the speed of the game.  If Moore could just move his feet faster, he would get a lot more time on the floor.  That will come, but it gets him out of position on defense.  He has a lot of potential as a good role player, just needs to get up to speed.  
To me, Smith is probably the most frustrating player to watch.  In terms of potential, he is probably only behind Romeo on this team, he can just flat be a darn good ball player if he would just be confident.  I think he is a decent shooter and overall player right now, but his confidence is so low.  I also don't think it helps, just my opinion, that he feels the ball has to always go to Romeo and Juwan.  Of course it should, but I mean in more of a smart playmaking area, if that makes any sense.  He is so passive at times that he makes bad judgements.  I have no doubt Justin can be a 12p and 7r average guy, and that's what this team really needs from him.  Get garbage buckets because he is a good rebounder, and attack/shoot when appropriate.  

Agree, if we can keep getting balanced classes like last season; immediate impact (Romeo), immediate role player (Hunter, Phin), willing to wait and develop (Anderson, Forrester). We’ll be in a good position as a program. We might miss on a recruit or two along the way but that’s where you count on your depth through recruiting. Next season we’ll have more of the same minus the immediate impact top 10 type freshman but will have great pieces in Jackson-Davis and Brooks. Franklin should get some run if he can play defense. It’s a bit easier for guards than bigs to adjust to the speed of the college game. Hopefully, Franklin is a fast learner.

Smith drives me bonkers. He’s almost in the Troy Williams category but he’s being asked to play defense. There are stretches where Smith brings it on defense and locks up an opponent. However, he seems to be in a funk where he overhelps when it’s not needed and doesn’t get back to his man. He goes for the highlight reel dunk when a simple two handed dunk is more than appropriate then gets stuck under the rim when a power move and athletic finish is needed. His feel for the game and decision making is what is holding him back and what gets his confidence plummeting. I’d love to see him breakout and be that third wheel that is needed but I just don’t see it. Hopefully, he’ll watch some film and be teachable to improve.


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7 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:


People keep saying how bad our shooters are. It’s not that, they are getting worse.

Why are our players not getting better but getting worse at free throw and 3 point shooting?

That’s alarming


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Confidence. It’s everything. When you know they are going in, they do. 

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