So some concerns I’m having...

[IUc2016 6,974]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

I keep hearing this, and I keep thinking about losing to Rutgers in the first round of the BTT.  A game we were out of from the start.

if you don't think last years team improved idk what to tell you man. They ended up top a 70 defense on KenPom after switching from Crean's matador style. The turnovers went way down as the season went on and were no longer an issue. The team just did not have the firepower to hang with the top of the conference, but still finished 6th overall.

 

As for the Rugters game, IU was blowing them out in the first half and blew a lead. SO, actually they were in it from the start

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Of course they improved. They stunk so bad nowhere to go but up

Which was exactly what was expected by anyone with a shred of objectivity going into last season.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

2 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Which was exactly what was expected by anyone with a shred of objectivity going into last season.


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Pretty sure a few of those losses were not expected especially the really bad ones

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Pretty sure a few of those losses were not expected especially the really bad ones

Correct. As with any team, looking at the results of single games is not a great indicator of an entire season.

It feels as though your approach to disprove my above point is purely reduction ad absurdum. Feel free to respond to the overall point, otherwise see you at the end of the season when we have a proper data set to discuss the success or failure of Archie in year two.


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[Whoozhers 3,638]

We got a guy that has a 48” vertical jump that can’t finish at the rim and turns the ball over frequently. That doesn’t sound like a building block for success.

Need to back up and reload Arch.

You can do it!

GO HOOSIERS!!!!

 

 

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[Maedhros 610]

40 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Which was exactly what was expected by anyone with a shred of objectivity going into last season.

I don't think anyone expected to get blown out on our home court by either Indiana State or Fort Wayne, let alone both. Crean didn't leave behind a roster capable of contending for the Big Ten, but we had enough talent on hand to avoid those results.

I can agree that we improved from that nadir over the course of the season, but can't say it was enough to earn back my trust after the deficit that was built up early. Remember, we lost seven of our last eleven games, and those four wins came against the four worst teams in the conference. And we ended our season with that loss to Rutgers. Others have noted the improvement in turnovers and defense that took place last season. I saw it too. But then this season we're barely 300th in the country in turnover percentage, and our offense looks a mess.

I'm not saying I'm ready to call it quits on the whole Archie era. I say this only to say I'm not ready to declare him the right coach to get this program back where we all want it to be. I don't see how anyone can be certain of that at this early point, but it would seem I've also been less encouraged by the early returns than most. As the title of this thread states, I have concerns...

[DChoosier 7,055]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

There has been no panic nor cliff jumping anywhere.  I don't understand why the blind loyalists keep accusing people of this.

It is ok to be concerned with the lack of effort and results we've seen.  Some of us are tired of struggling with teams with far less talent.  It's ok to talk about.

I agree.

We obviously are not playing well, turning the ball over at an alarming rate etc but mentioning the obvious somehow leads to “jumping off the cliff” and “you think we should fire Archie now” comments.  What are we supposed to say after the last three games? Nice try? Go team go?

No, I am not jumping off the cliff nor saying we should fire Archie. I do say “the jury is still out” on him as it is with every new employee that has not exceeded expectations.

I didn’t think we would beat Duke (in the prediction thread I picked Duke 88-67, very close, but did not expect us to lay down from the start) or hang a banner. I did hope that in year two we would protect the ball, hit free throws, continue to improve the improving defense, play hard with focus and have some sort of offense. I was at the Duke game and began to feel sorry for Romeo as he ran around trying to get the ball and do something. He is a slasher but we did virtually nothing to help open angles to the basket for him, set screens, nothing. We allegedly have 2 of the 8 or 10 best players in the BT but do very little to increase their opportunities on offense.

Lets hope we see Marquette type performances the next 4 games.

[IUrocker 2,130]

If we don’t start playing like we did against Marquette on a regular basis, we will probably get beat way more often than not. Michigan looked awesome against North Carolina and if we play with the effort we had at Duke then Michigan will give us the same result at their place. They were impressive. They had that tough, refuse to lose way about them on the court...something we lack way more often than not and can be quite frustrating. When we show all out effort we look really good, and when we don’t we get destroyed unless we happen to be playing Columbia City High School, and the players act like it’s not as big deal as it should be. 

[mdn82 25,461]

I think having 2 top 5 players in the conference we should aspire for more than squeaking into the tourney

Who said anything about squeaking into the tourney? Either way I would be happy with at worst a 7 seed.

 

 

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[Dalton26 16,891]

I think it’s entirely too early to be jumping ship on Archie(I think he’ll be just fine), but I’ll admit it’s a hell of a lot better seeing people upset than the 75% of the fan base that always believed nothing was Creans fault for his entire career here.


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[Alford Bailey 12,259]

3 hours ago, Whoozhers said:

We got a guy that has a 48” vertical jump that can’t finish at the rim and turns the ball over frequently. That doesn’t sound like a building block for success.

Need to back up and reload Arch.

You can do it!

GO HOOSIERS!!!!

 

 

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Is Justin Smith Hanner Perea bad?

[cthomas 5,930]

Isn't this fun. It's like getting married and then, after a while when things aren't quite what you thought they'd be, wondering did I make a mistake?

[LIHoosier 25,013]

2 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Is Justin Smith Hanner Perea bad?

Just from an 'on-court' sense right? imo, Justin just needs to begin the game on the bench and get back into a contributor's role so he can gain some self-esteem and hopefully 'good Justin' can emerge once the full B1G slate commences.

[DChoosier 7,055]

4 hours ago, Dalton26 said:

I think it’s entirely too early to be jumping ship on Archie(I think he’ll be just fine), but I’ll admit it’s a hell of a lot better seeing people upset than the 75% of the fan base that always believed nothing was Creans fault for his entire career here.

I see posts relating to issues in which people would like to see improvement but virtually no posts in which posters are “jumping ship” on Archie.

Does pointing out things that did not go well in a game (or games) equate to jumping ship? Not in my opinion. 

Rather than jump ship I hope we have a great season, get healthy and go to the tourney. If that happens the curb-stomping in Durham and two “sleep walking” home games against extension schools will just be a blip in the season.

[BGleas 7,880]

Anytime you remove anywhere from 4-6 scholarship players from a team the play is going to suffer. When you remove maybe the best defender in the conference as well as the 2nd best defender on the team the defense is going to suffer. When you remove the highest IQ guy and the only veteran point guard on the team, the offense and turnovers are going to suffer. That was all McRoberts and Green, I didn’t even get to Davis, Hunter and Thompson.

With all those guys injured it’s not only the play that suffers but so does practice and preparation.

We dismantled a Marquette team that some think can win the Big East. We lost on a missed layup and tip in at Arkansas against a team that presses in a tough environment when we had a freshmen backcourt and were missing our best defender and backup point guard. 

We’re a couple injuries and a missed tip-in from being 6-1 and ranked. We need to have some patience. It’s not easy, but we can’t let Archie pay for the fauilures of Davis, Sampson and Crean. Several of the top coaches in college basketball struggles their first 2-3 years at their current schools, including Coach K, Beilein, Tony Bennett, Izzo, and many more. 

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Last year we sucked because of new Kirk. Now we are told we are struggling because we don’t have him. 

[ap2345 7,098]

Last year we sucked because of new Kirk. Now we are told we are struggling because we don’t have him. 

Nope Newkirk was terrible and IU is definitely better off without him.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Part of the reason I really don’t want to have these conversations is because if one of the most promising young coaches in college basketball can’t find success at Indiana, we have a real serious problem on our hand. Not sure how many more chances Indiana has to get this right. Imagine how disillusioned the fan base would be if they were told Archie was the wrong guy but this time, this time we got the right guy. Woof.


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[coonhounds 8,693]

Part of the reason I really don’t want to have these conversations is because if one of the most promising young coaches in college basketball can’t find success at Indiana, we have a real serious problem on our hand. Not sure how many more chances Indiana has to get this right. Imagine how disillusioned the fan base would be if they were told Archie was the wrong guy but this time, this time we got the right guy. Woof.

 

 

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Archie is the right guy.

 

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Just takes time hope the fans give him a fair chance and beginning of second season is not giving him a chance

[bigrod 2,786]

I don't think Arch is not the right guy at all, but it doesn't mean we can't talk about some disturbing trends.

 

In my opinion, the program we most want to emulate is Villanova. It will take time to build that kind of foundation, If you look at what Wright has done, he didn't have immediate sustained success.