Intentional Fouls

[iuswingman 1,940]

Anyone wish that all intentional fouls were called as such?

Everyone knows that players are fouling intentionally to stop the clock at the end of the game when they are slightly behind on the scoreboard.

I know we use the strategy just like everyone else.  However, it's hardly fun to watch.  I think it would better if they would just call like it was, an intentional foul, and stop that from being a strategy to stretch out the game.

 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

11 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

Anyone wish that all intentional fouls were called as such?

Everyone knows that players are fouling intentionally to stop the clock at the end of the game  when they are slightly behind on the scoreboard.

I know we use the strategy just like everyone else.  However, it's hardly fun to watch.  I think it would better if they would just call like it was, an intentional foul, and stop that from being a strategy to stretch out the game.

 

Are you saying they shouldn’t call these fouls?

[Naturalhoosier 15,353]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Are you saying they shouldn’t call these fouls?

 

I think he is saying the reverse. When a players hug-fouls another it should be handled as an actual intentional/flagrant foul to reduce the stoppage time and speed the end of game along.  That was my interpretation anyway. 

[iuswingman 1,940]

i think they should call it an intentional then it would stop being used as a strategy to get back in the game.

[CrossboneIU22 1,161]

Why do so many people want this strategy to be stopped?  It is a necessary part of the game. 

It adds a suspense to the game. It is a way for a team to try and get the ball back while limiting the possession time of the other team.  The risk for the team fouling is giving the other team 2 (or 3) easy chances (but not 100% guaranteed) at 2 points while stopping the clock.  How else would you stop a team from just running out the clock.  Defenses can only do so much and if they are then required to play havoc defense, it could actually lead to more unintentional fouls.  If defenses have to go a million miles a minute playing havoc defense just to try and get the ball back to tie/win the game this just leads to chaos and bad basketball.

I realize it can be hard at times to watch in certain situations and maybe we try to limit these type of situations.  For example;

• if a team is up by so many points, say 10 points under 1 minute to go, then call these as intentional fouls  
• if the game is under 30 seconds and lead is greater than 4 pts (most points possible from a single shot, 3pt + foul shot, single possesion, 30 sec shot clock is off) then fouls are considered intentional
• change free-throws under 1 minute to be 1 shot worth 2 points, if its a 3, first shot worth 2 pts, 2nd shot worth 1 pt to speed up this process. 
• just simply speed up the free-throw process in general from the time the call is made to the time the shot is taken.  Don't allow teams to huddle, don't allow TV breaks, speed up substitutions, just speed up the general process all together

This is by no means a comprehensive list but just some thoughts off the top of my head. 

But along this point, I also don't understand the need to always change college basketball.  I get some things like introducing the 3 point line (has to do with shooting the ball which is fundamental), but I feel we are approaching the level of too much tampering these days.  In my opinion college basketball is the most fun level of basketball to watch among all levels because it is a combination of high level basketball, big stage and imperfect basketball.  The most talented team doesn't always win but rather the smarter, harder working, well coached teams usually prevail.  

[iuswingman 1,940]

This is not adding some convoluted extra rule.  It's just calling an intentional foul what it is - intentional.

There is no reason the last 1-2 minutes of a close game needs to drag out for 20+ minutes. 

This would also help the issue with tv viewers missing the first portion of their game because the previous game dragged on past their time allotment because of the foul to get back in the game strategy.

[CrossboneIU22 1,161]

46 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

This is not adding some convoluted extra rule.  It's just calling an intentional foul what it is - intentional.

There is no reason the last 1-2 minutes of a close game needs to drag out for 20+ minutes. 

This would also help the issue with tv viewers missing the first portion of their game because the previous game dragged on past their time allotment because of the foul to get back in the game strategy.

If it gets called that way, you're just going to have people committing fouls that are intentional but made to look accidental and could be more dangerous than currently just grabbing a guy (although safety is not really the concern here). Not really going to solve anything in your situation.  I mean if I slap at the ball and hit the guys arm, it is not intentional even if I secretly meant to hit his arms to prevent a shot/layup from happening.  On the contrary, during the normal course of the game, not just at the end, if I grab a guy,  I meant to foul him, but I didn't mean to get caught.  Those are not called intentional today and would cause a lot more intentional fouls throughout the entire game in your situation, is that going to stop it from happening? 

Then you're opening up the situation of replay, was that foul intentional or not.  Another 20 minutes of review (exaggeration of course) defeating the purpose.  Other than adding a "convoluted extra rule", I don't see how this changes or helps anything by calling an "intentional" foul and intentional foul.

[CrossboneIU22 1,161]

I mean if you're going to try and eliminate intentional fouling at the end of the game, why even play the last 30 seconds of the game if the shot clock is off.  Chances of getting the ball back to try and tie or win the games is highly unlikely.  No incentive for winning team to shoot.  Really want to end the game playing 4 corners?  I don't want to see that.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 hour ago, CrossboneIU22 said:

I mean if you're going to try and eliminate intentional fouling at the end of the game, why even play the last 30 seconds of the game if the shot clock is off.  Chances of getting the ball back to try and tie or win the games is highly unlikely.  No incentive for winning team to shoot.  Really want to end the game playing 4 corners?  I don't want to see that.

A team spends all game getting a 10 point lead and then a stream of anti-basketball plays drag the game out at the end and allow for a fluke comeback. It would be like somehow making intentional turnovers have value towards the end of games.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

A team spends all game getting a 10 point lead and then a stream of anti-basketball plays drag the game out at the end and allow for a fluke comeback. It would be like somehow making intentional turnovers have value towards the end of games.

Last I checked hitting Free throws is also part of basketball

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Last I checked hitting Free throws is also part of basketball

Maybe you need to check again. 

 B1G has adopted a non-free throw shooting option for league games this season. Instead of shots the fouled team will get the ball out of bounds with a fresh shot clock. But fouls will still be tracked with players getting 5 each.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Last I checked hitting Free throws is also part of basketball

Maybe employ a 3 to make 2 like the NBA used to have. That way the intentionally fouled bad shooter would get an extra shot, if needed and potentially stop the comeback bid before it gets started, thereby speeding up the ending.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

11 minutes ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

Maybe you need to check again. 

 B1G has adopted a non-free throw shooting option for league games this season. Instead of shots the fouled team will get the ball out of bounds with a fresh shot clock. But fouls will still be tracked with players getting 5 each.

I could not possibly hate that more...I doubt I will watch a big ten game that doesn’t feature IU

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

I could not possibly hate that more...I doubt I will watch a big ten game that doesn’t feature IU

Thankfully, I was just messing with you there. Would definitely not be as enjoyable to watch.

 

[HoosierAloha 29,890]

What's an intentional foul though? A team is down by 10 with a minute and some change to go... they can't win the game but they start trapping and get a turnover that leads to easy points. They're down 8 with 50 seconds left. They trap again but they hack the passer, unintentionally, while he passes out of the corner. Is that intentional? There have been some really amazing comebacks, in the dance no less, using this strategy. For the most part, it's an annoyance to the fans of the winning team and those teams fans in the next TV game. However, you're taking strategy and winning time out of the game.


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

3 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

What's an intentional foul though? A team is down by 10 with a minute and some change to go... they can't win the game but they start trapping and get a turnover that leads to easy points. They're down 8 with 50 seconds left. They trap again but they hack the passer, unintentionally, while he passes out of the corner. Is that intentional? There have been some really amazing comebacks, in the dance no less, using this strategy. For the most part, it's an annoyance to the fans of the winning team and those teams fans in the next TV game. However, you're taking strategy and winning time out of the game.


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There are clear differences between that and that accidental foul just so happening to be of the worst ft shooter on the floor, or wrapping your arms around someones waist or slapping their shoulder from behind. For the most part, it's easy to differentiate a foul on a basketball play and a foul designed for a free throw parade.

[HoosierAloha 29,890]

9 hours ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

There are clear differences between that and that accidental foul just so happening to be of the worst ft shooter on the floor, or wrapping your arms around someones waist or slapping their shoulder from behind. For the most part, it's easy to differentiate a foul on a basketball play and a foul designed for a free throw parade.

So we're wanting the players to disguise their fouls better?

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

So we're wanting the players to disguise their fouls better?

There would be an element of players trying to do just that, be we all know what we mean by intentional fouls to end games.

[hoosierbgh 1,227]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

So we're wanting the players to disguise their fouls better?

No, it sounds like we are wanting officials to make more judgement calls on whether or not players sufficiently disguised their fouls at the end of games.  

[coonhounds 8,690]

Fouling to stop the clock is part of the game. I like watching players have to make clutch free throws or rebound a crucial missed attempt. It is exciting and doing away with it would be detrimental imo. The only time i am against it is when it is the game before iu and it is running over into our game. Maybe they just change it to that

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