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Class of '66 Old Fart

(2019) CG - Anthony Harris to North Carolina

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1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

Well then get on topic...Archie or Chris?

 

;)

I would take Tony Bennett six days a week and seven times on Sunday over either of those two -- and that was years before he won the natty. (Although like Anthony Harris, there was very little chance he'd ever come to B-Town!). 

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Yeah but as a top 25 kid I think they expected more. Looked it up and he was averaging under 10 pts a game before his injury. Not a bust by any means but I don’t think he was a sure fire stud going into his 2nd Jr year.


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He got hurt in one of his first games and tried to play through the injury before they shut him down after 9 games. 12 and 6 for a sophomore and the teams 2nd leading scorer for the year is pretty good. Not sure how many other sophomores that year had stats that good but it probably wasn’t many


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He got hurt in one of his first games and tried to play through the injury before they shut him down after 9 games. 12 and 6 for a sophomore and the teams 2nd leading scorer for the year is pretty good. Not sure how many other sophomores that year had stats that good but it probably wasn’t many


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That could be. I was going from memory mainly on the idea that IU was predicated to be the better team before the 2017-18 season.

So I looked and found a few others who felt the same.
http://btn.com/2017/10/04/dienhart-my-2017-18-big-ten-mens-basketball-predictions/amp/


Then this one showed OSU was not looking strong again this year but did better than expected
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-11/big-ten-basketball-andy-katzs-predictions-and-power-rankings?amp

Preseason predictions are not the end all but the discussion about OSU clearly being in a better spot to win early in Holtmann’s career was not necessarily the case. In fact, it seems IU has been picked to finish higher both years but have not.



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2 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

I had a Arkansas fan tell me that he’s not surprised that we are struggling with having Tom Ostrom on staff. Basically said he’s a worthless excuse for an assistant coach.


An AAU coach told me the same exact thing about Bruiser Flint. Said that he was surprised that guy even coaches basketball.

Archie’s staff sucks. To put it mildly.


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I don't know much about Ostrom.  I was pretty vocal against the Flint hire from the beginning, simply a bad coach.

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36 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

I had a Arkansas fan tell me that he’s not surprised that we are struggling with having Tom Ostrom on staff. Basically said he’s a worthless excuse for an assistant coach.


An AAU coach told me the same exact thing about Bruiser Flint. Said that he was surprised that guy even coaches basketball.

Archie’s staff sucks. To put it mildly.


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To be fair you're putting a lot of stock into what one Arkansas fan (do they even care about basketball?) and a lousy AAU coach think.

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I would like to see us sign some of these recruits, but Archie hasn’t proved he can win yet. Plus, at Indiana he will have to go to class. I’m not implying Harris isn’t a good student, but every top recruit thinks he’s going to the next level. Maybe we should play up the next level will be in corporate USA not the NBA. 

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1 hour ago, 8bucks said:


That could be. I was going from memory mainly on the idea that IU was predicated to be the better team before the 2017-18 season.

So I looked and found a few others who felt the same.
http://btn.com/2017/10/04/dienhart-my-2017-18-big-ten-mens-basketball-predictions/amp/


Then this one showed OSU was not looking strong again this year but did better than expected
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-11/big-ten-basketball-andy-katzs-predictions-and-power-rankings?amp

Preseason predictions are not the end all but the discussion about OSU clearly being in a better spot to win early in Holtmann’s career was not necessarily the case. In fact, it seems IU has been picked to finish higher both years but have not.



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I’d say it was the case, the media picking OSU to be bad, in this case, just means the media doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Bates-Diop was coming off an injury after averaging 12 and 6 as a sophomore. So the media and fans, having really not seen him for a year, miscalculated what he could bring.

Holtman’s first year, Bates-Diop was way better than Juwan Morgan. He was Juwan Morgan with a perimeter game. 

They also had Kam Williams and Tate who were highly ranked seniors and Kaleb Wesson fell in his lap. Wesson, even as a freshmen, was a guy you had to alter your regular style for due to his size. Add CJ Jackson as a veteran guard and that’s a solid, legit lineup, certainly better than what Archie had. 

We seriously had to start Freddie McSwain and Zach McRoberts. 

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9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I’d say it was the case, the media picking OSU to be bad, in this case, just means the media doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Bates-Diop was coming off an injury after averaging 12 and 6 as a sophomore. So the media and fans, having really not seen him for a year, miscalculated what he could bring.

Holtman’s first year, Bates-Diop was way better than Juwan Morgan. He was Juwan Morgan with a perimeter game. 

They also had Kam Williams and Tate who were highly ranked seniors and Kaleb Wesson fell in his lap. Wesson, even as a freshmen, was a guy you had to alter your regular style for due to his size. Add CJ Jackson as a veteran guard and that’s a solid, legit lineup, certainly better than what Archie had. 

We seriously had to start Freddie McSwain and Zach McRoberts. 

Yeah but Diop surprised people was that just Diop or the player development. 

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Yeah but Diop surprised people was that just Diop or the player development. 

I remember Holtmann on the show the journey that year when they did a special on Diop and his injury the year before and his success he was having his last year at Ohio St and Holtmann said once he saw Diop in workouts before the season he knew he had one of the better players in the B1G that year since he was fully healthy and they would be better then originally planned and projected.


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51 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

I remember Holtmann on the show the journey that year when they did a special on Diop and his injury the year before and his success he was having his last year at Ohio St and Holtmann said once he saw Diop in workouts before the season he knew he had one of the better players in the B1G that year since he was fully healthy and they would be better then originally planned and projected.


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He also reminded Diop of what the basketball world thought of him and told him straight up what he saw in the tape of his first few years. Didn’t hold back and pushed the right buttons to get the best version of Diop. Holtmann did a great job and has continued to do a good job but even he acknowledged he walked into a good position. In his own words I walked into a situation with 2 hungry upperclassmen with a bad taste on their mouths. I won’t take away from what out staff did but that was a benefit for us for sure


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14 hours ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 


I excluded the moral compass argument. Arizona Miller obvious does a little more than tip toe that line.

I still think our program was headed toward hot garbage status more so than OSU at that point.

I'm not saying a tournament appearance this season was unreasonable because it wasn't, and should have happened. But the OVERALL expectations are off point. People were predicting our return to former glory by year three and it just isn't realistic for someone with a litany of things working against them.


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I did not expect the return to former glory. I did expect a team, in year two, to play hard in more than half their games. You can call us headed towards “hot garbage” but a team that beat MSU twice and had Romeo/Morgan should not have slept walked through half the season and lost 11/12.  I’m pulling for Archie and hope that in year 10 we say “boy those first two years we tough but now we have it rolling”.  Not sure why saying this year was a disappointment seemingly always leads to “why do you want to fire Archie” or “what did you expect” type comments.

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I did not expect the return to former glory. I did expect a team, in year two, to play hard in more than half their games. You can call us headed towards “hot garbage” but a team that beat MSU twice and had Romeo/Morgan should not have slept walked through half the season and lost 11/12.  I’m pulling for Archie and hope that in year 10 we say “boy those first two years we tough but now we have it rolling”.  Not sure why saying this year was a disappointment seemingly always leads to “why do you want to fire Archie” or “what did you expect” type comments.

 

Maybe some of my previous points weren't stated clearly. It seems like your understanding of the hot garbage comment is off from what I intended.

 

I expected the same in year two (and every year, if we're talking effort). If you're asking why I question people who want Miller gone after year two, I have nothing new to add. I'll just reiterate: think about what he took over and when he took it over. Think about what it does to a program's development to fire a coach in 2 years and how that presents itself to potential future players and coaches.

 

 

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Keeling down to North Carolina and Clemson. If he went to NC by my count that would be 7 scholarship guards. Got to think one of the guards (Robinson, black, woods, Francis) looks elsewhere


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4 hours ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 

Maybe some of my previous points weren't stated clearly. It seems like your understanding of the hot garbage comment is off from what I intended.

 

I expected the same in year two (and every year, if we're talking effort). If you're asking why I question people who want Miller gone after year two, I have nothing new to add. I'll just reiterate: think about what he took over and when he took it over. Think about what it does to a program's development to fire a coach in 2 years and how that presents itself to potential future players and coaches.

 

 

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Have many (or any) posters said Miller should be fired now?

My point is that expresssing disappointment somehow extrapolates into some posters thinking that disappointment = wanting him fired.

I’m disappointed so far but do not want him fired. Hope he works out and grows old here.

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6 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Have many (or any) posters said Miller should be fired now?

My point is that expresssing disappointment somehow extrapolates into some posters thinking that disappointment = wanting him fired.

I’m disappointed so far but do not want him fired. Hope he works out and grows old here.

Exactly. I want Archie to succeed but I don’t see the foundation being built. Another disappointing with another lackluster recruiting cycle and we will basically be in lame duck mode. 

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Exactly. I want Archie to succeed but I don’t see the foundation being built. Another disappointing with another lackluster recruiting cycle and we will basically be in lame duck mode. 

I have no problem with people being disappointing I just don’t agree with certain takes like last years recruiting cycle is viewed as lackluster and that this years is viewed as lackluster without this class playing a single college game.


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Just now, Uspshoosier said:


I have no problem with people being disappointing I just don’t agree with certain takes like last years recruiting cycle is viewed as lackluster and that this years is viewed as lackluster without this class playing a single college game.


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I don’t think 2018 was lackluster. But definitely as of now we have one player who is returning from it expected to contribute that’s Rob. We are hopeful Jerome will. Jake and Romeo are gone. And Damezi probably needs another year. 

2019 was lackluster in my book because I would bet 2 of them are gone in 2 years. TJD and Brunk. We have one long term recruit in Franklin. 

We desperately tried to get another guard because we are going to be very thin there in 2020. And just in our offers we lost out on 9 of 10 most likely the 10th coming soon. That’s just offers we handed out to guards besides Franklin. 

So now even if we have a decent year in 2019 we are a rob injury away from a disappointing 2020 because we won’t have any experienced depth at guard. That’s not how you build sustained success 

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