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CrimsonCreamer

Two 5 Star Recruits in Same Class?

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56 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

I’ve done some research on this in the past and Nova ranks so low because they generally have very small classes. If you look at average player rating I believe they would be top 10 or close.

IMO these ratings systems put too much emphasis on volume.  It fueled the myth that Crean was a great recruiter, due to consistently high turnover and large classes leading to high class rankings.

I dont think they'd be as high as you expect. Just pulled the averages for that same time period I used before and their average is just as close to ours as it is to Kentucky. From 14-18 UK had an average of 98.97, Nova 95.44, and IU 91.59. IU's classes also include Gelon in 16, and Priller, April, Hoetzel(all 360 or lower in the rankings) in 14 which dramatically drag down their classes averages. 

 

The difference between IU and Nova in averages is 3.85 which drops to 2.38 without those four sub 360 ranked players, while the gap between UK and Nova is 3.53. Leaving in the guys that dramatically drag down IU's two classes the difference from IU/Nova to Nova/UK is .32 closer between UK/Nova, while taking them out puts the difference at 1.15 in favor of IU/Nova being more similar.

 

While I understand you cant just take players out, at the same time Nova's recruiting outside of Creans insanely stupid offers to non-d1 players is more on Par with IU than UK.

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17 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I dont think they'd be as high as you expect. Just pulled the averages for that same time period I used before and their average is just as close to ours as it is to Kentucky. From 14-18 UK had an average of 98.97, Nova 95.44, and IU 91.59. IU's classes also include Gelon in 16, and Priller, April, Hoetzel(all 360 or lower in the rankings) in 14 which dramatically drag down their classes averages. 

 

The difference between IU and Nova in averages is 3.85 which drops to 2.38 without those four sub 360 ranked players, while the gap between UK and Nova is 3.53. Leaving in the guys that dramatically drag down IU's two classes the difference from IU/Nova to Nova/UK is .32 closer between UK/Nova, while taking them out puts the difference at 1.15 in favor of IU/Nova being more similar.

 

While I understand you cant just take players out, at the same time Nova's recruiting outside of Creans insanely stupid offers to non-d1 players is more on Par with IU than UK.

My research is a little dated (don't remember which service I used) but using the 3 year period from 2014 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 11th best average, Villanova 30th best average

Average Player Rating - IU  29th best average, Villanova 12th best average

Using 5 year period from 2012 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 6th best average, Villanova 24th best average

Average Player Rating - IU 23rd best average, Villanova 10th best average

I completely agree that Villanova's recruiting is not par with UK.   But looking solely at class rankings it would appear as if Villanova doesn't recruit talented players which isn't true.

Edit: Sorry I ignored your point about IU taking lower rated kids which is valid.

You could have an outstanding 4 man class and taking a flyer on another kid won't diminish the strength of the class but would lower the average rating.  Probably why services don't focus on average player rating.

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6 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

My research is a little dated (don't remember which service I used) but using the 3 year period from 2014 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 11th best average, Villanova 30th best average

Average Player Rating - IU  29th best average, Villanova 12th best average

Using 5 year period from 2012 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 6th best average, Villanova 24th best average

Average Player Rating - IU 23rd best average, Villanova 10th best average

I completely agree that Villanova's recruiting is not par with UK.   But looking solely at class rankings it would appear as if Villanova doesn't recruit talented players which isn't true.

I wasnt trying to say they didnt recruit talented players at all, they do but they get a good mix between 5 and 4 stars unlike UK who tries to fill their class out of the top 10. That was my whole argument, for the levels of success both school have had I'll take the Nova recruiting format and more success like them everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 

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2 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Have you seen Calipari’s record? He’s won 81% of his games at Kentucky. In 9 seasons he has been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite Eights, and 7 Sweet Sixteens. I’ll take that level of winning. He had a “down” year last season, winning only 26 games and advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. LOL.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I wasnt trying to say they didnt recruit talented players at all, they do but they get a good mix between 5 and 4 stars unlike UK who tries to fill their class out of the top 10. That was my whole argument, for the levels of success both school have had I'll take the Nova recruiting format and more success like them everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 

Plus, I want to cheer for guys for 2, 3 and 4 years!

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10 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I wasnt trying to say they didnt recruit talented players at all, they do but they get a good mix between 5 and 4 stars unlike UK who tries to fill their class out of the top 10. That was my whole argument, for the levels of success both school have had I'll take the Nova recruiting format and more success like them everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 

I said in an earlier post that I would prefer Nova's recruiting style of taking guys in the top 30 to 70 that stick around.

I think we actually completely agree with each other.

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8 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

I said in an earlier post that I would prefer Nova's recruiting style of taking guys in the top 30 to 70 that stick around.

I think we actually completely agree with each other.

It's a difficult balancing act. For this year it would mean not taking a Phinisee or an Anderson. Thank goodness we weren't Darius Garland or bust, at PG.

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18 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

If there is a five star recruit instate or related to a former player, do you not recruit them because they might not stick around 3-4 years? Of course not. If a top recruit is interested in your program, you recruit them.

Did anyone say you don't take them? 

In 2019, I'd take Jackson-Davis, Brooks, Watford, and one of the guards we're going after.  I don't think any of them are surefire OAD players though.  If we could get 2 years our of that trio of forwards we'd be in great shape.

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On 5/9/2018 at 10:15 PM, Iugradman said:

Two five stars in a single class is known as a disappointment at Kentucky. We need to aim for their level of recruiting.

I disagree... I want a nice mix of future pros to follow at the NBA level and banners. I hope we model our recruiting efforts closer to Villanova and North Carolina (No I don’t want us to start offering fake classes). Fill a roster with mid-high 4 star guys that fit into roles, are coachable and have upside. Build that foundation then recruit the hell out of 1-2 program changing recruits each year. I don’t want to recruit like Duke or Kentucky at all. It’s not sustainable at all. Make up on a pig if you ask me.

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