Two 5 Star Recruits in Same Class?

[BubbleKnuts 569]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 6:27 AM, CrimsonCreamer said:

Tyler Lewis who went to NC State then transferred to Butler and Marshall Plumlee were both burger boys that weren’t top 25 recruits 

Thats more than likely because some of those top guys were foreign, transferring to the USA. 

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

Looking back to our last NCAA title, the late, great Darryl Thomas was a McD's All-American, but for some reason, Steve Alford was not. Hard to imagine -- he averaged nearly 38 points a game his senior season at New Castle. ... I have no idea what star ranking they had -- or if those even existed back then (would've been 1983). ... BTW, Freddie Banks was a McD's AA, too. Remember him? Just when it looked as if we had Vegas put away in the 1987 national semis, Freddie started hitting crazy 3's. Made us really sweat that one out. 
FWIW, here's a link to that team. Can you imagine Marshall or Austin Peay getting a burger boy today? Wow. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/rosters/1983
 

Sheehey and Blackmon on that list too


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[CrimsonCreamer 27]

21 hours ago, BubbleKnuts said:

Thats more than likely because some of those top guys were foreign, transferring to the USA. 

More so because of a lack of good point guard prospects in the class (Lewis) and because of who Plumlee’s brothers were and where he was committed...

[RaceToTheTop 23,402]

On 5/6/2018 at 11:29 PM, HoosierHoops1 said:

I suppose it's all in where you look, but 247 composite has David McCormack and Reggie Perry as 4 stars this year.

And ESPN had McCormack, Perry, and Jaylen Brown all as 4 stars.  

[mdn82 25,456]

Two five stars in a single class is known as a disappointment at Kentucky. We need to aim for their level of recruiting.

Why?


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

38 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Two five stars in a single class is known as a disappointment at Kentucky. We need to aim for their level of recruiting.

I want 5's and 4's and maybe even 3's that fit. Not 5's for the sake of stars.

If TJD or Trendon have a junky July and drop to 4 stars, I don't suddenly want to change our focus, and prioritize others.

[mdn82 25,456]

I want 5's and 4's and maybe even 3's that fit. Not 5's for the sake of stars.
If TJD or Trendon have a junky July and drop to 4 stars, I don't suddenly want to change our focus, and prioritize others.

Yeah I am not sure why or when Kentucky would become a model. If anything I would think following Nova’s recruiting would be more wise. Hell, Duke and Kansas are more attractive than Kentucky.


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[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

Two five stars in a single class is known as a disappointment at Kentucky. We need to aim for their level of recruiting.

Absolutely NOT! Don't want a revolving locker room door with pay for play kids. Hasn't been proved but Calislimy is dirty. Always has been. Along with his bagman World Wild Wes. He has had the best or next to the best recruits at pUKe for a decade and had one title and that's because of some upperclassmen. Thats not the program that I want.

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[HoosierX 1,445]

11 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Two five stars in a single class is known as a disappointment at Kentucky. We need to aim for their level of recruiting.

I’d rather shoot for Villanova. Kids who consistently rank in the 30 to 70 range and stick around

[Brass Cannon 24,062]

10 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Have you seen Calipari’s record? He’s won 81% of his games at Kentucky. In 9 seasons he has been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite Eights, and 7 Sweet Sixteens. I’ll take that level of winning. He had a “down” year last season, winning only 26 games and advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. LOL.

Id rather win championships. You dont do that with 5 one and dones every year. 

[Dalton26 16,891]

7 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Have you seen Calipari’s record? He’s won 81% of his games at Kentucky. In 9 seasons he has been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite Eights, and 7 Sweet Sixteens. I’ll take that level of winning. He had a “down” year last season, winning only 26 games and advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. LOL.

I'd rather recruit a little worse than Kentucky and have more national championships to show for it like Villanova. Those stats you mention look nice but when youre wanting us to recruit at the level of UK which normally has either the best or second best collection of talent you for damn sure better have more than 1 natty.

[Dalton26 16,891]

11 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I'd rather recruit a little worse than Kentucky and have more national championships to show for it like Villanova. Those stats you mention look nice but when youre wanting us to recruit at the level of UK which normally has either the best or second best collection of talent you for damn sure better have more than 1 natty.

Just did a little more checking on their last 5 recruiting classes:

2014 - UK #2 / Nova #48

2015 - UK #1 / Nova #29

2016 - UK #2 / Nova #45

2017 - UK #2 / Nova #28

2018 - UK #2 / Nova #16

 

I'll take the lesser Nova style of recruiting all day every day with their success in that same period of time.

[HoosierAloha 29,880]

Not to mention, Dook and puke kind of have that $hare of the market. I'd be happy to recruit the low 5* and high 4* kids that will get old in college basketball. That's more of a consistent winning formula if you have a good coach.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,088]

So you want to cheat?

Have you seen Calipari’s record? He’s won 81% of his games at Kentucky. In 9 seasons he has been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite Eights, and 7 Sweet Sixteens. I’ll take that level of winning. He had a “down” year last season, winning only 26 games and advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. LOL.

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[HoosierX 1,445]

51 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

Just did a little more checking on their last 5 recruiting classes:

2014 - UK #2 / Nova #48

2015 - UK #1 / Nova #29

2016 - UK #2 / Nova #45

2017 - UK #2 / Nova #28

2018 - UK #2 / Nova #16

 

I'll take the lesser Nova style of recruiting all day every day with their success in that same period of time.

I’ve done some research on this in the past and Nova ranks so low because they generally have very small classes. If you look at average player rating I believe they would be top 10 or close.

IMO these ratings systems put too much emphasis on volume.  It fueled the myth that Crean was a great recruiter, due to consistently high turnover and large classes leading to high class rankings.

[Brass Cannon 24,062]

5 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

I’ve done some research on this in the past and Nova ranks so low because they generally have very small classes. If you look at average player rating I believe they would be top 10 or close.

IMO these ratings systems put too much emphasis on volume.  It fueled the myth that Crean was a great recruiter, due to consistently high turnover and large classes leading to high class rankings.

True. What i want our recruiting to look like

1-2 five stars with one being a OAD

2-3 four star guys that you could see maybe leaving after 2 years but could also stay 4 years contributing after freshmen year. 

Probably have an average class size of only 4  and almost never have a top 5 class but would be fantastic roster year in and year out

 

[Dalton26 16,891]

56 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

I’ve done some research on this in the past and Nova ranks so low because they generally have very small classes. If you look at average player rating I believe they would be top 10 or close.

IMO these ratings systems put too much emphasis on volume.  It fueled the myth that Crean was a great recruiter, due to consistently high turnover and large classes leading to high class rankings.

I dont think they'd be as high as you expect. Just pulled the averages for that same time period I used before and their average is just as close to ours as it is to Kentucky. From 14-18 UK had an average of 98.97, Nova 95.44, and IU 91.59. IU's classes also include Gelon in 16, and Priller, April, Hoetzel(all 360 or lower in the rankings) in 14 which dramatically drag down their classes averages. 

 

The difference between IU and Nova in averages is 3.85 which drops to 2.38 without those four sub 360 ranked players, while the gap between UK and Nova is 3.53. Leaving in the guys that dramatically drag down IU's two classes the difference from IU/Nova to Nova/UK is .32 closer between UK/Nova, while taking them out puts the difference at 1.15 in favor of IU/Nova being more similar.

 

While I understand you cant just take players out, at the same time Nova's recruiting outside of Creans insanely stupid offers to non-d1 players is more on Par with IU than UK.

[HoosierX 1,445]

17 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I dont think they'd be as high as you expect. Just pulled the averages for that same time period I used before and their average is just as close to ours as it is to Kentucky. From 14-18 UK had an average of 98.97, Nova 95.44, and IU 91.59. IU's classes also include Gelon in 16, and Priller, April, Hoetzel(all 360 or lower in the rankings) in 14 which dramatically drag down their classes averages. 

 

The difference between IU and Nova in averages is 3.85 which drops to 2.38 without those four sub 360 ranked players, while the gap between UK and Nova is 3.53. Leaving in the guys that dramatically drag down IU's two classes the difference from IU/Nova to Nova/UK is .32 closer between UK/Nova, while taking them out puts the difference at 1.15 in favor of IU/Nova being more similar.

 

While I understand you cant just take players out, at the same time Nova's recruiting outside of Creans insanely stupid offers to non-d1 players is more on Par with IU than UK.

My research is a little dated (don't remember which service I used) but using the 3 year period from 2014 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 11th best average, Villanova 30th best average

Average Player Rating - IU  29th best average, Villanova 12th best average

Using 5 year period from 2012 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 6th best average, Villanova 24th best average

Average Player Rating - IU 23rd best average, Villanova 10th best average

I completely agree that Villanova's recruiting is not par with UK.   But looking solely at class rankings it would appear as if Villanova doesn't recruit talented players which isn't true.

Edit: Sorry I ignored your point about IU taking lower rated kids which is valid.

You could have an outstanding 4 man class and taking a flyer on another kid won't diminish the strength of the class but would lower the average rating.  Probably why services don't focus on average player rating.

[Dalton26 16,891]

6 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

My research is a little dated (don't remember which service I used) but using the 3 year period from 2014 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 11th best average, Villanova 30th best average

Average Player Rating - IU  29th best average, Villanova 12th best average

Using 5 year period from 2012 to 2016:

Class Rankings - IU 6th best average, Villanova 24th best average

Average Player Rating - IU 23rd best average, Villanova 10th best average

I completely agree that Villanova's recruiting is not par with UK.   But looking solely at class rankings it would appear as if Villanova doesn't recruit talented players which isn't true.

I wasnt trying to say they didnt recruit talented players at all, they do but they get a good mix between 5 and 4 stars unlike UK who tries to fill their class out of the top 10. That was my whole argument, for the levels of success both school have had I'll take the Nova recruiting format and more success like them everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

2 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Have you seen Calipari’s record? He’s won 81% of his games at Kentucky. In 9 seasons he has been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite Eights, and 7 Sweet Sixteens. I’ll take that level of winning. He had a “down” year last season, winning only 26 games and advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. LOL.