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This Thread Is About Coaches

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6 hours ago, QualityLoss said:

I have family in Ohio so I follow their team closely. Holtmann inherited a Butler team that went 14-17 and went 23-11 where they eventually lost in the second round(he only received the HC job in October). Two seasons later he gave a butler another second round and sweet sixteen finish.

He took over a OSU program that was taking quickly sinking and brought it back up quickly. He finished 6th in recruiting but only received the job in June so I think it is fair to cut him some slack.

People are always going to compare Archie and Holtmann because of the timing of their hires, but I do not think you can make any sweeping judgments until 3 or 4 years have passed.

Welcome.  Hope to see you become a frequent poster.

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15 hours ago, Josh said:

 

I agree with 99% of this.  You're right, I believe these are the differences between you and I.

 

The defense definitely improved without Crean.  It had to.  I'm glad it did.  We improved against the zone.  It had to.  I'm glad it did.

 

Our half court offense improved.  I'm glad it did.  Morgan improved.  I'm glad he did.  It happens to somebody every year.

 

Archie has recruited in-state.  I couldn't care less.  I don't care if our player is from Indiana or Uranus.  It makes no difference to me.  We don't oversign anymore!  I don't care.  This makes no difference to me.

 

You're right, I care about results.  Not the minutiae above.  You see, to me it's as though some people find things that they didn't like about Crean and are celebrating because those small things have changed.  I care about the black and white.  The numbers.  The results.

 

Which opinion is more short sighted?  That's the 1% I disagree with you about.  We can talk small changes that make people smile or we can talk about embarrassing losses and poor results.  You are what your stats say you are.  

 

Thanks for the discussion.

You completely misinterpreted my post. I'm not comparing Archie to Crean. I'm comparing Archie to Archie, and how the team improved greatly in several areas during the season, and the strategy he's implementing to turn the program around. 

We can get into all the areas things have improved in, and all the reasons Archie is a good basketball coach, but you don't seem too interested in that discussion. You can call them "small things that make people smile", but the minutiae and the strategy is how organizations are built and how failing organizations (sports teams, businesses, etc.) are turned around. It's the small things that matter.

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On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:02 PM, Feathery said:

I wasn’t impressed pressed with Holtmann at Butler and he inherited a good situation. I think Holtmann could be like Bruce Weber. Do well with other coaches recruits and then be just good enough to keep his job but not do much with his own. His first recruiting class is ranked 6th in conference, behind IU (4th without Romeo). Even NW has a better class. Time will tell with him. 

This is what I think too- Holtman did a great job with some talented, experienced players he inherited.....how will HIS team look in 2-3 yrs?

Even next year without KBD, Tate and Williams may be a huge drop-off.  

 

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10 hours ago, QualityLoss said:

I have family in Ohio so I follow their team closely. Holtmann inherited a Butler team that went 14-17 and went 23-11 where they eventually lost in the second round(he only received the HC job in October). Two seasons later he gave a butler another second round and sweet sixteen finish.

He took over a OSU program that was taking quickly sinking and brought it back up quickly. He finished 6th in recruiting but only received the job in June so I think it is fair to cut him some slack.

People are always going to compare Archie and Holtmann because of the timing of their hires, but I do not think you can make any sweeping judgments until 3 or 4 years have passed.

OSU was sinking bc of Jaquan Lyle and a head coach who wasn’t healthy enough to be coach. Holtmann inherited a solid roster that bought into things straight away. The bad apples were gone and so was Matta bc physically he couldn’t do it. He also stepped into a conference that is down terribly. 

Im not comparing him to Archie. I’m comparing him to himself and the situation of Bruce Weber at Illinois. I’ve watched a lot of Butler games, I’ve got family connections there, and I was never impressed. He is good enough to keep his job and mediocre enough to not win anything. He literally has never won his conference, conference tournament, or a preseason tournament. 

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OSU was sinking bc of Trey Lyles and a head coach who wasn’t healthy enough to be coach. Holtmann inherited a solid roster that bought into things straight away. The bad apples were gone and so was Matta bc physically he couldn’t do it. He also stepped into a conference that is down terribly. 
Im not comparing him to Archie. I’m comparing him to himself and the situation of Bruce Weber at Illinois. I’ve watched a lot of Butler games, I’ve got family connections there, and I was never impressed. He is good enough to keep his job and mediocre enough to not win anything. He literally has never won his conference, conference tournament, or a preseason tournament. 

Jaquan Lyle


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On 3/18/2018 at 9:40 PM, Alford Bailey said:

I would have taken Holtmann in a heartbeat. The five year comparison will be interesting between Holtmann and Archie.

I don’t think Holtmann will be able to recruit at the level Thad Matta reached at OSU. Everyone is falling in love with him right now but he also inherited a 5* B1G player of the year in Diap. I’m predicting Holtmann fizzles out by year 3-4.... he’s a great coach, so they won’t be terrible but they’ll probably remind us a lot of his Butler teams. Nothing to shake a stick at but that’s not what Ohio State envisioned when firing their legendary coach. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that Archie won’t put together a few monster rosters in Bloomington. 

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Interesting story. A kid who played for Penny Hardaway in high school had committed to Wichita State. But now he wants to go to Memphis -- which is in the same conference -- and Gregg Marshall let him out of his LOI with no restrictions. 

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/03/20/gregg-marshall-does-right-by-alex-lomax-with-nli-release/

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6 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

Interesting story. A kid who played for Penny Hardaway in high school had committed to Wichita State. But now he wants to go to Memphis -- which is in the same conference -- and Gregg Marshall let him out of his LOI with no restrictions. 

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/03/20/gregg-marshall-does-right-by-alex-lomax-with-nli-release/

Instant influx in talent guess it's one strategy. Still question the logic of hiring a guy with so little experience. 

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Have seen a couple reports that behind the scenes, big brother has reached out to Pitt and would go there if he's wanted. Considering what's gone down at Arizona, I can't see him staying there -- especially when as of now, he has no recruiting class. The question: Even though he's an alum, would Pitt want him? They've supposedly offered the job to Danny Hurley, but most signs point to him going to UConn. Plus, there's the mess in Tuscon -- for how much of that is he responsible? Rightly or wrongly, his image is pretty tarnished at this point. Then again, so is that of Pitt basketball -- not because of violations, but because on the surface, it seems like a really, really crappy job. IMO, it simply doesn't belong in the ACC and seems like it's gonna have a really, really tough time competing in that league. It just seems like a terrible fit. 

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1 hour ago, LamarCheeks said:

Have seen a couple reports that behind the scenes, big brother has reached out to Pitt and would go there if he's wanted. Considering what's gone down at Arizona, I can't see him staying there -- especially when as of now, he has no recruiting class. The question: Even though he's an alum, would Pitt want him? They've supposedly offered the job to Danny Hurley, but most signs point to him going to UConn. Plus, there's the mess in Tuscon -- for how much of that is he responsible? Rightly or wrongly, his image is pretty tarnished at this point. Then again, so is that of Pitt basketball -- not because of violations, but because on the surface, it seems like a really, really crappy job. IMO, it simply doesn't belong in the ACC and seems like it's gonna have a really, really tough time competing in that league. It just seems like a terrible fit. 

Will be interesting to see if Pitt takes the chance. Seems too risky.

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And not terribly surprising news - 

Louisville formally informed interim coach David Padgett that they will be finding someone else to fill the head basketball coach position on a permanent basis, Padgett told 247Sports.

"They are going in a different direction," Padgett said. "They appreciated my efforts and everything I did with this team and to make it a good situation, obviously they wished me nothing but the best and I feel the same about the university."

Full 247 story at:  https://247sports.com/Article/David-Padgett-Louisville-part-ways-116528705

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32 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Well, there's this - 

Arizona Basketball‏Verified account @APlayersProgram 

From #APlayersProgram head coach Sean Miller: “I am not a candidate for the University of Pittsburgh men’s basketball head coaching vacancy. I wish them well in their search for a new coach.”

Interesting ... According to the Pittsburgh newspaper, Miller had met or spoken with the Pittsburgh AD. She's a lawyer and apparently, has an extensive background in NCAA compliance, so she may very well have said, "Sorry Sean, this isn't happening." ... Because word was that he expressed interest in the job. But who know's if that's true??? 

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Interesting ... According to the Pittsburgh newspaper, Miller had met or spoken with the Pittsburgh AD. She's a lawyer and apparently, has an extensive background in NCAA compliance, so she may very well have said, "Sorry Sean, this isn't happening." ... Because word was that he expressed interest in the job. But who know's if that's true??? 
That Pittsburg job is a complete rebuild job as Stallings destroyed the program. Miller will end up somewhere else.

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On 3/21/2018 at 8:49 PM, HoosierFan1994 said:

I don't get how Sean is still there. They are losing all five starters and no incoming recruits. Sounds a lot like our 2008-2009 season for them. 

The possibility exists that Sean may have listened to the Adidas guy, and upon learning of the money involved wanted to be the guy receiving info from Adidas rather than an assistant so he could control the direction of the conversation from the Arizona side, all the while intending to kill the potential deal because it is dirty without allowing the Adidas relationship to sour.

This investigation, and all the others since Cellphone Sampson, just bring back bad memories about how poorly Indiana University handled that whole investigation into excessive phone calls and texts.  Indiana just rolled over.

That still chafes my @$$ bad to this day.

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30 minutes ago, chicagoHOOSIER said:

The possibility exists that Sean may have listened to the Adidas guy, and upon learning of the money involved wanted to be the guy receiving info from Adidas rather than an assistant so he could control the direction of the conversation from the Arizona side, all the while intending to kill the potential deal because it is dirty.

This investigation, and all the others since Cellphone Sampson, just bring back bad memories about how poorly Indiana University handled that whole investigation into excessive phone calls and texts.  Indiana just rolled over.

That still chafes my @$$ bad to this day.

It would have likely become uglier if Sampson stayed. Who knows what he would've ended up pulling. The crap he was busted for was only halfway through his second season. Imagine Eli Holman and Brandon McGee taking classes at IU for four years? We would've likely had our own academic fraud scandal trying to keep half the team eligible, and our APR would've rivaled UConn's. 

Word would have gotten out about his locker room as well, and he too would have likely lost the state in regards to recruiting...but maybe we would have landed Jaquan Lyle.

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