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mdn82

This Thread Is About Coaches

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That was the best thread in the history of threads.

A lot more true talk in that thread than people cared to admit early on.


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That can be the same for any coach. You are hired to be fired/retire. Very few retire. I mean there are two outcomes. It’s not like we had a bunch of foresight in that thread. I will make a bold prediction and say Archie will be fired from IU eventually. Does that make me Nostradamus? Not at all. Hell I could cherry pick his shortcomings in year 1 and say what he will eventually be fired for. You would say his recruiting. I would say losing to cupcakes. Then he gets fired. We are both right in our eyes and go on your scoresheet of being right. Unfortunately for some getting a coach fired isn’t black and white. That’s where that thread was annoying.


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1 hour ago, mdn82 said:


That can be the same for any coach. You are hired to be fired/retire. Very few retire. I mean there are two outcomes. It’s not like we had a bunch of foresight in that thread. I will make a bold prediction and say Archie will be fired from IU eventually. Does that make me Nostradamus? Not at all. Hell I could cherry pick his shortcomings in year 1 and say what he will eventually be fired for. You would say his recruiting. I would say losing to cupcakes. Then he gets fired. We are both right in our eyes and go on your scoresheet of being right. Unfortunately for some getting a coach fired isn’t black and white. That’s where that thread was annoying.


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I’m really not buying the point you are trying to make. If you complain about a coach and then he wins two national championships then you were probably misguided.  If you complain about a coach and the same issues show up and over again and he gets fired, maybe you were on to something.

I also don’t think your comparison to Archie Miller holds any water at all. Losing to two cupcakes are outcomes, not fundamental coaching flaws. Now you could argue there are coaching issues that led to those losses, but I would argue the sample size is too small.

Crean had some very fundamental issues with his coaching abilities that were apparent over a course of time much longer than a year.  Many people refused to acknowledge them, even at the very end. (although not so much on this board)

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I’m really not buying the point you are trying to make. If you complain about a coach and then he wins two national championships then you were probably misguided.  If you complain about a coach and the same issues show up and over again and he gets fired, maybe you were on to something.
I also don’t think your comparison to Archie Miller holds any water at all. Losing to two cupcakes are outcomes, not fundamental coaching flaws. Now you could argue there are coaching issues that led to those losses, but I would argue the sample size is too small.
Crean had some very fundamental issues with his coaching abilities that were apparent over a course of time much longer than a year.  Many people refused to acknowledge them, even at the very end. (although not so much on this board)

How many coaches do you complain about wins two national championships? I will wait for that response...

As for your point about sample size, that kind of encompasses my point when we see people talking about how right they are when lazy wide encompassing generalizations are thrown out and in turn they claim they are right. If you were one here longer and more you would understand.


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44 minutes ago, mdn82 said:


How many coaches do you complain about wins two national championships? I will wait for that response...

As for your point about sample size, that kind of encompasses my point when we see people talking about how right they are when lazy wide encompassing generalizations are thrown out and in turn they claim they are right. If you were one here longer and more you would understand.


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I’ve seen UNC fans complain about Roy. They thodo got he lost it and were talking about him needing to go. Then he won the entire thing last year. So that shut them up.

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45 minutes ago, mdn82 said:


How many coaches do you complain about wins two national championships? I will wait for that response...

As for your point about sample size, that kind of encompasses my point when we see people talking about how right they are when lazy wide encompassing generalizations are thrown out and in turn they claim they are right. If you were one here longer and more you would understand.


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I would get frustrated with people not seeing the flaws in Crean. There is a clear blueprint in beating a Crean team. Im Just glad he is now gone and we can all move on from him. Wish him well at Georgia. 

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I’ve seen UNC fans complain about Roy. They thodo got he lost it and were talking about him needing to go. Then he won the entire thing last year. So that shut them up.

They were complaining when K was winning at Duke in both recruiting and on the court. They were funny, but that was very few fans. The majority of them are like TrustInRoy. Even worse now that he has won 3.

 

I should have added semi intelligent fans in my previous statement that got you to quote me. There was a small group in the 80s complain about Knight too.

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That can be the same for any coach. You are hired to be fired/retire. Very few retire. I mean there are two outcomes. It’s not like we had a bunch of foresight in that thread. I will make a bold prediction and say Archie will be fired from IU eventually. Does that make me Nostradamus? Not at all. Hell I could cherry pick his shortcomings in year 1 and say what he will eventually be fired for. You would say his recruiting. I would say losing to cupcakes. Then he gets fired. We are both right in our eyes and go on your scoresheet of being right. Unfortunately for some getting a coach fired isn’t black and white. That’s where that thread was annoying.


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We fundamentally don’t see certain things the same way. And that’s ok.

The people that pointed out the blemishes and coaching inadequacies were attacked and ridiculed on here for years. There was always a strong contingent of people that would support Crean no matter what despite all evidence that he wasn’t the guy Indiana needed for years. A few of these people held on until the very end.

I’m not even one that is big into firing coaches, etc. You and others know I haven’t complained about Archie’s coaching all season, despite the losses. I think Archie will do great here if able to compete on a level playing field. If he fails, I’ll admit to being wrong. He knows basketball.

I don’t think people realize how annoying it was for people to ignore or shoot down any and all valid criticisms of Crean for years.

Both sides were annoyed with each other and it bled into the forums.



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We fundamentally don’t see certain things the same way. And that’s ok.

The people that pointed out the blemishes and coaching inadequacies were attacked and ridiculed on here for years. There was always a strong contingent of people that would support Crean no matter what despite all evidence that he wasn’t the guy Indiana needed for years. A few of these people held on until the very end.

I’m not even one that is big into firing coaches, etc. You and others know I haven’t complained about Archie’s coaching all season, despite the losses. I think Archie will do great here if able to compete on a level playing field. If he fails, I’ll admit to being wrong. He knows basketball.

I don’t think people realize how annoying it was for people to ignore or shoot down any and all valid criticisms of Crean for years.

Both sides were annoyed with each other and it bled into the forums.



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As you said that went both ways and would be great if both sides recognized that. I don’t think people realized it wasn’t blind optimism (for some) or people shooting down criticisms. It’s that not all were valid. A lot of criticisms were rooted in personality issues. His clothing. Tugging on pants. Diet Coke drinking. Son kissing. Neither side wanted to listen to the other and both had valid points. As a mod it sucked. I didn’t want him here. At the same time for discussion there were things Crean did do. From 2011-2016 he won more top 25 games than any coach. He also played the weakest schedules I had seen in years beyond conference. His offense was consistently ranked very high besides 2013, but his offense sucked. This isn’t a boohoo thing. This is there are legitimate points to both sides. It’s not black and white. Never has been. Archie Miller is a far better in game coach than Crean ever hoped to be. I am hopeful he recruits well enough to keep us happy for 25 years.


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We fundamentally don’t see certain things the same way. And that’s ok.

The people that pointed out the blemishes and coaching inadequacies were attacked and ridiculed on here for years. There was always a strong contingent of people that would support Crean no matter what despite all evidence that he wasn’t the guy Indiana needed for years. A few of these people held on until the very end.

I’m not even one that is big into firing coaches, etc. You and others know I haven’t complained about Archie’s coaching all season, despite the losses. I think Archie will do great here if able to compete on a level playing field. If he fails, I’ll admit to being wrong. He knows basketball.

I don’t think people realize how annoying it was for people to ignore or shoot down any and all valid criticisms of Crean for years.

Both sides were annoyed with each other and it bled into the forums.



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Yeah...try not being happy with the current coach. The responses are usually personal attacks. I hope I'm proven wrong in time, but some posters are aggressive in responses.

Eh. Go Hoosiers.

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4 hours ago, Josh said:

 


Yeah...try not being happy with the current coach. The responses are usually personal attacks. I hope I'm proven wrong in time, but some posters are aggressive in responses.

Eh. Go Hoosiers.

 

It shouldn’t be personal attacks. As far advised Archie it is waaaaay to early for anyone to have issues with his coaching. He inherited a tremendously flawed team and implemented an entirely different style. The sample size is much to small right now. Now if whatever issues you have continue and causes IU to lose in day year 3 or 4, then you will have company on the criticizing. For now that type of talk is entirely too premature. 

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It shouldn’t be personal attacks. As far advised Archie it is waaaaay to early for anyone to have issues with his coaching. He inherited a tremendously flawed team and implemented an entirely different style. The sample size is much to small right now. Now if whatever issues you have continue and causes IU to lose in day year 3 or 4, then you will have company on the criticizing. For now that type of talk is entirely too premature. 


I don't understand this reasoning. We just watched an entire season. We saw Archie's team get run off the court by inferior teams like ISU, Fort Wayne, and Rutgers. Are the sunshine pumpers the only fans allowed to have an opinion in your eyes? If so, will you please tell me when I'm allowed to have an opinion too?

I'm not angry as my post may imply. I'm just confused as to why some people are allowed opinions and others have to wait until they're allowed.

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The jury is still definitely out on Archie. Next year is big. Major improvement has to be shown.

I don’t think Romeo comes and quite frankly IU doesn’t deserve to get him. Fred Glass and Michael McRobbie should not be able to pound their chest and boast about a successful basketball program. Their incompetence and mismanagement should not be rewarded.

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6 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

The jury is still definitely out on Archie. Next year is big. Major improvement has to be shown.

I don’t think Romeo comes and quite frankly IU doesn’t deserve to get him. Fred Glass and Michael McDobbie should not be able to pound their chest and boast about a successful basketball program. Their incompetence and mismanagement should not be rewarded.

Major improvement after losing 5 seniors. My lord people let's be patient here. Maybe let his players at least he Sophmores before you expect Major improvement. 

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The jury is still definitely out on Archie. Next year is big. Major improvement has to be shown.
I don’t think Romeo comes and quite frankly IU doesn’t deserve to get him. Fred Glass and Michael McRobbie should not be able to pound their chest and boast about a successful basketball program. Their incompetence and mismanagement should not be rewarded.
Yea we know. You don't let us forget. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

The jury is still definitely out on Archie. Next year is big. Major improvement has to be shown.

I don’t think Romeo comes and quite frankly IU doesn’t deserve to get him. Fred Glass and Michael McRobbie should not be able to pound their chest and boast about a successful basketball program. Their incompetence and mismanagement should not be rewarded.

Does the sun ever shine in your world?

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22 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

The jury is still definitely out on Archie. Next year is big. Major improvement has to be shown.

I don’t think Romeo comes and quite frankly IU doesn’t deserve to get him. Fred Glass and Michael McRobbie should not be able to pound their chest and boast about a successful basketball program. Their incompetence and mismanagement should not be rewarded.

Archie deserves to land him.

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Major improvement after losing 5 seniors. My lord people let's be patient here. Maybe let his players at least he Sophmores before you expect Major improvement. 

I’m not personally judging Archie either way after 1 season but these types of responses are confusing. We will always be losing guys to the NBA, transfer and graduation. This year it was that we lost 3 of our best players, next year it will be that we lost 5 seniors etc etc, that’s he nature of the game, all coaches endure


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