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mdn82

This Thread Is About Coaches

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I’m there with you on that, having ties to Marquette. I wasn’t happy with the hire but gave Crean a chance. This time around I’m being more critical in what I’m looking for. Does the system work both offensively and defensively. That’s the biggest thing to me. I’ve seen huge defensive improvement and a lot of missed shots that were open looks. This gives me hope for Archie, but I need a larger sample size, with the type of player he wants before I can say to myself this is the guy who will be here for 20+ years. 

Yeah, the connection I had to Marquette was not just my proximity but also that my Grandfather and Aunt both were Marquette grads. My Aunt was inducted into the Marquette hall of fame in 2010 for basketball and volleyball. They are both rabid hoops fans and so, through them, I watched plenty of Marquette basketball. I will say that I didn’t automatically hate the hire given our situation. To best describe what I felt at the time of the announcement was closer to a confounded surprise. I didn’t come on here and immediately blow the guy up, I was as complimentary of the man as I could be. It went down as I said, my first ever post stating that I didn’t think fans would like Tom at a school with such a knowledgeable fan base, and the basketball tradition of IU. It was not well received. In the meantime, my Aunt would message me twice a year, asking “Roses still blooming in Bloomington?” Her way of asking if we had yet figured it out.

 

 

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I think this line of thinking is premature because the simple fact is the system the kids who played this season were used to and recruited to was vastly different than the one they were asked to play in.  They got exposed as having no idea what their defense was supposed to look like early on; and one of your examples was their first game trying; AND their first game having no offensive leader.
IU didn't get run off the floor by Rutgers.  Come on, now.   
I'll say this.  If Archie didn't learn by watching how teams were able to defend Indiana and how teams are playing against the pack line defense now?   He's got a problem.   I thought he slowed tempo too much.   I think he could have used more ball pressure and full court pressure to generate more offense.  
I'm giving him another year or two before I truly formulate a judgement on whether or not I think he's "the guy," and I sure as heck won't hold his first game against him.   I saw plenty of progress this season, especially from a defensive numbers and ball security perspective.


Yes, our players were playing in a new system. Same as Ohio State's players. Same as Butler's players. Same as many other teams. Ours didn't find any success. What's the difference there?

I'm not so upset that they lost their first game to far inferior talent. It's the blowout fashion in which they did. Then the blowout loss to Fort Wayne. And yes, Rutgers beat us pretty convincingly in the Big Ten tourney. All of these were really embarrassing.

Looking at the season, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed. I really can't find one for optimism. Perhaps I should be telling the optimistic ones that it's way too early for their excitement? Because imo, I have seen nothing optimistic except that Archie is Not Crean.

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

 


Yes, our players were playing in a new system. Same as Ohio State's players. Same as Butler's players. Same as many other teams. Ours didn't find any success. What's the difference there?

I'm not so upset that they lost their first game to far inferior talent. It's the blowout fashion in which they did. Then the blowout loss to Fort Wayne. And yes, Rutgers beat us pretty convincingly in the Big Ten tourney. All of these were really embarrassing.

Looking at the season, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed. I really can't find one for optimism. Perhaps I should be telling the optimistic ones that it's way too early for their excitement? Because imo, I have seen nothing optimistic except that Archie is Not Crean.

 

Ohio State players ran the same system with Matta and Holtmann 

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Yes, our players were playing in a new system. Same as Ohio State's players. Same as Butler's players. Same as many other teams. Ours didn't find any success. What's the difference there?

I'm not so upset that they lost their first game to far inferior talent. It's the blowout fashion in which they did. Then the blowout loss to Fort Wayne. And yes, Rutgers beat us pretty convincingly in the Big Ten tourney. All of these were really embarrassing.

Looking at the season, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed. I really can't find one for optimism. Perhaps I should be telling the optimistic ones that it's way too early for their excitement? Because imo, I have seen nothing optimistic except that Archie is Not Crean.

You don’t find the defensive improvement over the course of the season a bright spot and a reason to be optimistic?


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15 minutes ago, Josh said:

 


Yes, our players were playing in a new system. Same as Ohio State's players. Same as Butler's players. Same as many other teams. Ours didn't find any success. What's the difference there?

I'm not so upset that they lost their first game to far inferior talent. It's the blowout fashion in which they did. Then the blowout loss to Fort Wayne. And yes, Rutgers beat us pretty convincingly in the Big Ten tourney. All of these were really embarrassing.

Looking at the season, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed. I really can't find one for optimism. Perhaps I should be telling the optimistic ones that it's way too early for their excitement? Because imo, I have seen nothing optimistic except that Archie is Not Crean.

 

He finished above .500 without any three point shooters a 6 foot 7 center and oh yeah no PG. 

The last time we had that was probably Creans first year and he set the record for fewest wins. 

Anybody who thinks the pro column for Archie is smaller than the con column probably just suffers from anhedonia

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You don’t find the defensive improvement over the course of the season a bright spot and a reason to be optimistic?


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Yes. It was a bright spot. The results of the games were a massive dark spot.

It's not all doom and gloom, but I'm very disappointed that we had so many embarrassing losses.

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22 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

He finished above .500 without any three point shooters a 6 foot 7 center and oh yeah no PG. 

The last time we had that was probably Creans first year and he set the record for fewest wins. 

Anybody who thinks the pro column for Archie is smaller than the con column probably just suffers from anhedonia

I just learned a new word. Thanks! 

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He finished above .500 without any three point shooters a 6 foot 7 center and oh yeah no PG. 
The last time we had that was probably Creans first year and he set the record for fewest wins. 
Anybody who thinks the pro column for Archie is smaller than the con column probably just suffers from anhedonia


Anhedonia. I had to look that one up (I'm in sales, not medical lol)

Maybe so. I'd love to find a reason to think we should be on the level we should be next year. I don't see one though.

Prove me wrong Archie. Please prove me wrong.

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

 


Anhedonia. I had to look that one up (I'm in sales, not medical lol)

Maybe so. I'd love to find a reason to think we should be on the level we should be next year. I don't see one though.

Prove me wrong Archie. Please prove me wrong.

 

Perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations to expect a coach to walk in and makes us elite overnight

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Perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations to expect a coach to walk in and makes us elite overnight


That's not my expectation. My expectation is to beat Fort Wayne. Or at least not get run off our own court by them.

My expectation is to be able to beat the 14 seed in the conference tournament. Certainly not to lose like we did.

Is that too much to ask? That we can beat inferior teams?

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2 minutes ago, Josh said:

 


That's not my expectation. My expectation is to beat Fort Wayne. Or at least not get run off our own court by them.

My expectation is to be able to beat the 14 seed in the conference tournament. Certainly not to lose like we did.

Is that too much to ask? That we can beat inferior teams?

 

We had a deeply flawed roster. Those losses could happen under any coach if those losses happen after Archie has his players I will agree with you. But right now it's too soon

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6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations to expect a coach to walk in and makes us elite overnight

He never said elite.  I personally didn't expect elite, but I expected to beat IPFW and Rutgers (I can somewhat understand ISU being the first game, but I still expected a W there); that's not elite, that just not losing to, or getting demolished by, lesser teams.  That's not unrealistic either.

 

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We had a deeply flawed roster. Those losses could happen under any coach if those losses happen after Archie has his players I will agree with you. But right now it's too soon


Ok. And I think it's too soon to say he's done a great job. We can only grade what we've seen. I didn't see a passing grade.

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4 minutes ago, Josh said:

 


Ok. And I think it's too soon to say he's done a great job. We can only grade what we've seen. I didn't see a passing grade.

 

If you expected to see more out of a team without a PG, no big man that fit the system and no three point shooting your expectations were unrealistic. That doesn't mean Archie did a bad job. 

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If you expected to see more out of a team without a PG, no big man that fit the system and no three point shooting your expectations were unrealistic. That doesn't mean Archie did a bad job. 

 

It's unrealistic to say we shouldn't have been run off our own court by Indiana State and Fort Wayne? It's unrealistic to say we shouldn't have been beaten like we were against the worst seed in the conference tournament?

 

Lol. I don't think that's unrealistic at all.

 

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Just now, Josh said:

 


It's unrealistic to say we shouldn't have been run off our own court by Indiana State and Firt Wayne? It's unrealistic to say we shouldn't have been beaten like we were against the worst seed in the conference tournament?

Lol. I don't think that's unrealistic at all.

 

It's unrealistic to think a deeply flawed team isn't going to have wtf losses

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Ok. And I think it's too soon to say he's done a great job. We can only grade what we've seen. I didn't see a passing grade.

There isn’t a right or wrong answer here. People’s opinion are going to differ. Most analysts praised him for the job he did with a limited roster (again no right or wrong answer if you think it was limited or not). A couple even said if it wasn’t for Holtman they would of voted him coach of the year in the B1G. If u expected more I have no problem with that just like I have no problem with someone who didn’t have higher expectations


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There isn’t a right or wrong answer here. People’s opinion are going to differ. Most analysts praised him for the job he did with a limited roster (again no right or wrong answer if you think it was limited or not). A couple even said if it wasn’t for Holtman they would of voted him coach of the year in the B1G. If u expected more I have no problem with that just like I have no problem with someone who didn’t have higher expectations


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I can get behind this. I just get annoyed by those who say my opinion isn't valid because they don't like it. I hated what I saw on the court. I don't understand how somebody can be pleased with the results, but to each his own.

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9 minutes ago, Josh said:

 


I can get behind this. I just get annoyed by those who say my opinion isn't valid because they don't like it. I hated what I saw on the court. I don't understand how somebody can be pleased with the results, but to each his own.

 

Nobody is pleased that we lost those games. We just aren’t going to jump off the bandwagon before it gets going. The way you present your opinion makes it seem like you don’t support Archie bc you didn’t expect bad losses in year one. You’re not giving him a chance. You can be skeptical and share your opinion. But everyone else has the right to come back at you with their opinion. If you can’t take that, then that’s a you issue. My vote is for you to keep posting bc I like to debate. 

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13 minutes ago, Josh said:

 


Ok. And I think it's too soon to say he's done a great job. We can only grade what we've seen. I didn't see a passing grade.

I basically agree with this, though if by not seeing a passing grade you mean that you saw a failing one, I wouldn't go that far. Of course we shouldn't be losing to the Fort Wayne's and ISU's of the world, certainly not at home. But better teams lose to lesser teams all the time. The #1 seed in the tournament just lost by 22 on a neutral floor to a team that would have caused a collective aneurysm on this board if we'd lost to them. Wichita St lost to Marshall. and Gregg Marshall is as good as it gets. It happens.

There are a couple of things that I'm curoius about going forward. I'm not a fan philosophically of pack line defense. I'm also curious why with the exception of McRoberts every single rotation player shot a lower percentage from 3 this year than last year. That would indicate a gap in the skill development piece. I also didn't like the way he coached a few games this year. Liked the strategic piece in the Purdue game particularly. Didn't like it in either Illinois game. Seemed  rigid in sticking with some things that weren't working.

But he's young and he's smart. If he evaluates his year and grows, he can be the guy long-term. If he doesn't, maybe not. I'm not ready to call it either way. 

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