IU vs Rutgers game thread

[LIHoosier 25,013]

If we want to talk strictly wins over his replacement - I'd be willing to bet that Archie was good for at least 4 more wins with this team. Can you imagine a Crean team that can't hit the three? At least Archie got them to play defense.

We would've lost last night with Crean as well.

No, we would've lost Wednesday night to them in the 11vs14 game.

 

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[JustWinWoody 3,259]

4 minutes ago, LIHoosier said:

No, we would've lost Wednesday night to them in the 11vs14 game.

 

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As the 14th seed?  I see what you did there.  

[pumpfake 3,914]

2 hours ago, chicagoHOOSIER said:

You just need to go out and buy a really nice Cubs hat.  That's all.  You should see what Schwarber looks like this year in Spring Training after training Rocky style all winter.  No more baby fat.  None.  Or become a Hoosier baseball fan.  Hoosiers are looking really good this year.

No.  Especially anything Chicago sports related. (no offense)

[SWEETLEMONbrown 144]

4 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

If we want to talk strictly wins over his replacement - I'd be willing to bet that Archie was good for at least 4 more wins with this team. Can you imagine a Crean team that can't hit the three? At least Archie got them to play defense.

We would've lost last night with Crean as well.

I've been saying this all year! Could you imagine this team's record had their main focus been a run and gun offense that was based around hitting threes? We would've lost every single 50/50 game that we ended up actually winning (far too few!). You could see the Crean habits come out as we were struggling to produce even the slightest offense (FT's aside), heaving threes and giving up back to back to back momentum killing turnovers. I couldn't be more excited for next season. Whether we get Romeo or not, we will have a team that is Archie's and I think(hope) that we will soon leave performances like last night behind us. While I love our seniors (especially Rob), we really need some fresh talent without Crean tendencies, and from then on we can truly judge how Archie is running the show. But I definitely don't see many coaches other than Archie winning many more games than we did.

[JSHoosier 19,578]

Defense just wasn't as good the last few games.  After getting a lead they let Rutgers have anything they wanted.  The team gave up yesterday, period, and Green's late first half "I don't wanna be here" lazy attempt at a pass said it all.

The Newkirk debacle is thankfully, and mercilessly, over.  I expected more from Johnson and Hartman this season.  If Green leaves I for one won't miss him; had a few good games in a row then right back to being terrible.

If we don't get Langford, which I don't see happening, I think next year will be rough.  And yes, I think it's too early to say Miller is the right coach.

[HoosierCoop 3,816]

• With limited talent, our season was on a Fulcrum point of going one way or another
  • We could have easily been a 4 seed in the B1G this year.
    • Made FT's
    • Made 3pt shots
    • Bad guard decisions
    • We were in the game until the end.
  • We could have easily been a 10 seed as well
    • Thank you Juwan Morgan for not allowing that and improving this year!
    • ...and that's it!
• You better wear your big boy paints next year or your A$$ will be on the pine.
• Transfers - In and Out will be interesting to monitor in the next few weeks.
• Thanks to our Seniors
  • It was a sad and less desirable season to finish on but you will always be Hoosiers.
• Robert Johnson
  • Congrats on all of your achievements.
  • People wanted him to be a leader.  In the 4 years I have watched him play he was never a leader.
  • Robert Johnson was at his best as a role player.  I attribute some of his woes to taking on a burden of leadership pressure.
• Key returnees
  • No more excuses!!!
  • You know the culture, the system, and the expectation!!!
  • No more pats on the back for good effort or participation!!!
  • With the incoming talent, it's time to lead and mentor them in the right direction.
  • Losing is not OK or acceptable anymore!
  • Whatever you have come to understand in the past is now in the hands of Archie Miller...period!!!

[pumpfake 3,914]

5 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Defense just wasn't as good the last few games.  After getting a lead they let Rutgers have anything they wanted.  The team gave up yesterday, period, and Green's late first half "I don't wanna be here" lazy attempt at a pass said it all.

The Newkirk debacle is thankfully, and mercilessly, over.  I expected more from Johnson and Hartman this season.  If Green leaves I for one won't miss him; had a few good games in a row then right back to being terrible.

If we don't get Langford, which I don't see happening, I think next year will be rough.  And yes, I think it's too early to say Miller is the right coach.

That Green pass exemplified how we played for the last 30 minutes of that game.  Not only was it a weak pass, but then he just stood there.

Rob Johnson played pretty strong defense through most of the season, but was always (and stayed true to form) a very inconsistent shooter.  I know Hartman was coming off an injury and then got dinged up several times, but I remember in the OSU game hearing Don Fisher say "I really wish he'd hit one of those" and as he was saying it I thought he was going to say "I really wish he'd stop taking those".  For over a month his shot was gone and he continued shooting every time the opportunity presented itself, at least McRoberts knows he's not a great shooter and shows some restraint.

This brings me to one of the biggest issues with our offense: no reliable shooters.  Knight used to talk about making sure your best shooters were getting the most shots.  We didn't have any "best" shooters, and coupled with the ingrained CTC philosophy we started the year with an every man for himself shot selection approach.  That improved noticeably as the season progressed, but there was simply no player that was reliable enough to be getting the most shots - we had to rely on somebody having a temporary hot hand.

Also, as we came down to the end of the season, as others have mentioned, I thought it looked like Morgan was a bit worn down.  Maybe it was just that opponents had seen him once and made adjustments to their defense.  He seems to have a more reserved demeanor, but I'd like to see a little more fire.  As Tim Garl stated above, we were far inferior to Rutgers in the intensity department.  I'd like to see Archie find a player with a similar personality to his own, that refuses to lose and fires up the rest of the team.

Finally, the talk of whether to put Morgan back in or not reminded me of something I've heard Erick Suhr bring up several times: Don't foul early.  Being limited in playing time because of early fouls handicaps both the player and team throughout the game.

[pumpfake 3,914]

13 minutes ago, HoosierCoop said:

• With limited talent, our season was on a Fulcrum point of going one way or another
  • We could have easily been a 4 seed in the B1G this year.
    • Made FT's
    • Made 3pt shots
    • Bad guard decisions
    • We were in the game until the end.
  • We could have easily been a 10 seed as well
    • Thank you Juwan Morgan for not allowing that and improving this year!
    • ...and that's it!
• You better wear your big boy paints next year or your A$$ will be on the pine.
• Transfers - In and Out will be interesting to monitor in the next few weeks.
• Thanks to our Seniors
  • It was a sad and less desirable season to finish on but you will always be Hoosiers.
• Robert Johnson
  • Congrats on all of your achievements.
  • People wanted him to be a leader.  In the 4 years I have watched him play he was never a leader.
  • Robert Johnson was at his best as a role player.  I attribute some of his woes to taking on a burden of leadership pressure.
• Key returnees
  • No more excuses!!!
  • You know the culture, the system, and the expectation!!!
  • No more pats on the back for good effort or participation!!!
  • With the incoming talent, it's time to lead and mentor them in the right direction.
  • Losing is not OK or acceptable anymore!
  • Whatever you have come to understand in the past is now in the hands of Archie Miller...period!!!

If I may, I'd add one more thing about free throws.  We shot in the high 80%'s last night with lots of attempts, so going forward there's no excuse for terrible shooting from the line.  They proved they can shoot 'em - it's not bad form or coaching.

[HoosierFan1994 4,631]

1 hour ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

So this is the way it ends, huh?

- Let me state that I am a pretty big fan of Archie and really like 95% of the decisions he's made both on and off the court since taking over the program. I believe he is more than capable to bring IU back to consistent success where (at minimum) we are in the tournament every year. That being said...

- This Rutgers game was absolute garbage from an effort and execution standpoint. Extremely disappointed with the lackluster and lackadaisical effort from the team last night. We got on top of them early and had them stymied with our defense. Then, we played extremely careless with the ball and stopped moving on offense. This level of play carried over to the defensive side of the ball where we allowed them to drive to the hoop, gain some confidence and ultimately win the game. I simply cannot believe some of the lackluster passes we were making last night. And the decision making was every bit as bad at times. I was absolutely shocked when we had a guy who's mired in a shooting slump take a step-back fade-away three in a close game with 5 minutes to go. Absolutely unbelievable. Our offense has been inconsistent under pressure all season long and last night proved it once again. And how we let a team that is more void of offensive threats than we are go on the runs they did is beyond my comprehension.

- Perhaps what frustrates me the most? We have a win or go home scenario. A chance for a re-match against Purdue in the next round in the Garden. An opportunity to extend our season and build some sort of an NIT resume to build for next season. And we just allowed Rutgers to out-tough us and win the game. They wanted it more and it wasn't even close. We were so mentally soft for the last 28 minutes of this game that it wasn't even funny. That was a trend in several games this year and I expect that Archie will remedy that soon.

- So there's your motivation for next year. To be honest, I hope Archie has TVs inside our locker room all off-season showing all of the Rutgers dunks we gave up. Add it to the compilation of Indiana State and Fort Wayne running us out of the gym. Throw in the stupid Nebraska bench and all the choreographed nonsense that they rubbed in our face, too. Whoever is on this team next year is going to have to have a whole lot more pride and desire to win or else we'll be right back at 16-15.

- To quote Coach Knight, "I had to sit around this (expletive) league with an 8-10 record and you will NOT make me go through that again!" Archie can replace that with 16-15 and it works all the same. 

I remember reading a book by Steve Alford. His freshman year coach Knight had the score of losing to Miami (OH) on the board all season. I hope Archie does the same thing. 

[Whoozhers 3,638]

In retrospect. Playing like a B1G team early and then resorting to really bad Jr. High level skills in a matter of minutes is inexcusable.
That’s all I’m going to say about that.


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[HoosierCoop 3,816]

Rutgers did have a really good scouting plan that worked:  Stop Morgan; because everyone else sucks; we win the game.

[cljones1979 740]

In the coming weeks we should start hearing about transfers

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[Chris007 42,243]

7 hours ago, cappymo14 said:

No. Absolutely let’s not. 100% not my intention here. The question I posed was specific to these players and tonight’s first half meltdown. I felt it was answered very well. While my opinion was that bringing Juwan back in, might have helped to stem the tide, he may also have picked up a 3rd which ends the game before halftime. Archie sticking to his script and not bringing him back was the correct decision 100%. I assure you guys I was simply looking to see if any of you would have taken the gamble.


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I thought Juwan looked extremely tired in the last 5 games. Didn't have the lift that he had earlier in the season. I think he played more minutes this season than he did in the last two. 

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

This was not a surprising outcome given how limited our roster is. To make a big run in the tourney we needed big performances from Juwan and Rojo. Rojo couldn't find a rythym all night and forced a lot of looks and Juwan struggled with being double teamed. Sorry but no matter who the coach is you can't win when you have the below issues:

Shooters who don't shoot: McRoberts

Shooters who just can't shoot: Newkirk, Durham, Hartmann

Guards who turn the ball over more than run the offense efficiently: Green, Newkirk

Also, Smith looked completely lost. 

It was amazing we were in that game. A lot had to do with how stupid Rutgers was with their fouls. Fouling Durham 4 times or so on shots that had no prayer of going in. Looking forward to a clean slate next year and still getting Romeo or some impact transfers to go with our freshman class. 

[JSHoosier 19,578]

14 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

This was not a surprising outcome given how limited our roster is. To make a big run in the tourney we needed big performances from Juwan and Rojo. Rojo couldn't find a rythym all night and forced a lot of looks and Juwan struggled with being double teamed. Sorry but no matter who the coach is you can't win when you have the below issues:

Shooters who don't shoot: McRoberts

Shooters who just can't shoot: Newkirk, Durham, Hartmann

Guards who turn the ball over more than run the offense efficiently: Green, Newkirk

Also, Smith looked completely lost. 

It was amazing we were in that game. A lot had to do with how stupid Rutgers was with their fouls. Fouling Durham 4 times or so on shots that had no prayer of going in. Looking forward to a clean slate next year and still getting Romeo or some impact transfers to go with our freshman class. 

McRoberts doesn't shoot because he knows he's not much of a shooter IMO.  The fact that he was the best on our team is more a reflection of how pathetic everyone else was.

[RatpigHoosier 1,022]

Last season couldn't have ended soon enough.  This season was close.

I gave up hope last season about the time the Big Ten season kicked off. This season was a delight compared to last, for me at least.


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[Alford Bailey 12,259]

These last two seasons......honestly glad its over. Let the changes begin. Next season needs to be different.

[HoosierFan1994 4,631]

2 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

These last two seasons......honestly glad its over. Let the changes begin. Next season needs to be different.

100% agree. I'm not surprised with the way recruiting has been. I hope this summer is like the 2011 one where the guys were sick and tired of losing. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

I really want to believe in Archie Miller.   I really, truly do.  

1)  With the offense I saw last night, I find it challenging to put 100% faith in him.  We moved like Crean's offense, and sometimes worse.  The high hand off accomplishes nothing; and starting our best driver/rim attacker on the block against 7' guys was idiotic.

2)  How many times do we let their post guys catch the ball and score over us?   No fronting; just let them do what they want and hope they miss.   Last night, they didn't, and we never adjusted.

3)  McRoberts is a complete offensive liability and played way too many minutes last night because he was crap on defense, too.  28 minutes, 1 shot. only 2 rebounds, and 1 assist.   That's just awful, and I don't care what he does from other perspectives; you cannot play a guy 70% of the minutes if he's not going to produce at all.    That Justin Smith played just 15 minutes is comical to me.

4)  Why is a guy who's shot is clearly off (Johnson) getting 16 shots and allowed to shoot 4-16?   Why??  Morgan only got 9 shots and made 5 of them, playing the same number of minutes as McRobers; and finishing with just 2 fouls.   

Good Lord, we make 25-29 FT's, and score just 69 points.  19 FG's for the game.  With an offense that didn't move.   Archie, I wanna' believe.  I really do.  But damn.   That was an embarrassing loss.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

This was not a surprising outcome given how limited our roster is. To make a big run in the tourney we needed big performances from Juwan and Rojo. Rojo couldn't find a rythym all night and forced a lot of looks and Juwan struggled with being double teamed. Sorry but no matter who the coach is you can't win when you have the below issues:
Shooters who don't shoot: McRoberts
Shooters who just can't shoot: Newkirk, Durham, Hartmann
Guards who turn the ball over more than run the offense efficiently: Green, Newkirk
Also, Smith looked completely lost. 
It was amazing we were in that game. A lot had to do with how stupid Rutgers was with their fouls. Fouling Durham 4 times or so on shots that had no prayer of going in. Looking forward to a clean slate next year and still getting Romeo or some impact transfers to go with our freshman class. 

It still blows having the season done on March 1 when other teams will be playing for another month.

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