Post Game Discussion : Indiana 55 vs Michigan 69

[mdn82 25,461]

We are losing key contributors to this team though

I think we can fill their inconsistency and turnovers easily. We will miss Newkirk’s ability to get into the lane. I for one won’t miss their shooting or their 4 to 5 plays a game where they just kill momentum with turnovers or bad shots apiece.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

10 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

I think we can fill their inconsistency and turnovers easily. We will miss Newkirk’s ability to get into the lane. I for one won’t miss their shooting or their 4 to 5 plays a game where they just kill momentum with turnovers or bad shots apiece.


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Maybe we can fill in for them. Not sure we can fill Hartmans role. 

But I think we will struggle to backfill the roles of the people taking over for the key contributors. 

[mdn82 25,461]

Maybe we can fill in for them. Not sure we can fill Hartmans role. 
But I think we will struggle to backfill the roles of the people taking over for the key contributors. 

See and that’s where I think we will have a surplus. Not every player will hit but we don’t need them to. In between incoming freshman and freshman that take the fresh to Sophomore leap we should be in really good shape. I think Justin Smith makes a big leap. Not really sure on Moore. Depends on how mentally strong he is. Don’t want to speculate much on him but you hear things. Doesn’t sound like he thought he would come in and ride the pine. Hopefully that doesn’t define him going forward. Then the freshman, RP will be huge. I think DA has to play big minutes as well due to his ability to shoot. Al will of course improve. Morgan and Davis will still be there. Our guard play has to improve and I think the potential is there next year for that to happen.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,828]

Lets be honest with ourselves. If we get Romeo we are looking at a 25+ win team. If we don’t? 19-23 win team on paper with expected improvements. This year we are a 17/18 win team. Not good enough to make the tournament unless we win 2 of our next 3 or get insanely hot in January and February. One or two wins over this year isn’t that hard to see for a team that isn’t fighting years of habits. Until we see how we finish it’s hard to say how next year looks. MSU will take a step back, as will NW, Minny, UM, and PU. A few of those will recruit ok and maintain, while most wont. I am not in the least bit concerned with our chances at a tournament team next season.


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I think we differ on how we view our current team. I think we are bad. I think arch is doing everything he can to figure things out.

Look at our stats and win/loss scores. We are not necessarily a better team next year. Davis could leave. JuMo could leave.




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[Old Friend 8,389]

18 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

See and that’s where I think we will have a surplus. Not every player will hit but we don’t need them to. In between incoming freshman and freshman that take the fresh to Sophomore leap we should be in really good shape. I think Justin Smith makes a big leap. Not really sure on Moore. Depends on how mentally strong he is. Don’t want to speculate much on him but you hear things. Doesn’t sound like he thought he would come in and ride the pine. Hopefully that doesn’t define him going forward. Then the freshman, RP will be huge. I think DA has to play big minutes as well due to his ability to shoot. Al will of course improve. Morgan and Davis will still be there. Our guard play has to improve and I think the potential is there next year for that to happen.


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This is a problem with many young players.  Especially ones who have only recently had any modicum of success.   Moore strikes me as a kid who's not necessarily into working as hard as he needs to.  I hear the same things you probably do.  

The bottom line in this whole dialogue is yesterday's performance isn't going to get it done.  Indiana fans (rightfully so) will have little patience for a team that can't score, doesn't move with purpose, and can't find shooters.   Yesterday should have been an embarrassment to Archie Miller; and I will say again if he thinks he will succeed at Indiana trying to win every game 52-49, he is mistaken.  He needs kids who understand the game and not just the sport.  He needs scorers and shooters.   His guards right now are pitiful sometimes, and yesterday in long stretches.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I think we differ on how we view our current team. I think we are bad. I think arch is doing everything he can to figure things out.

Look at our stats and win/loss scores. We are not necessarily a better team next year. Davis could leave. JuMo could leave.




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Morgan isn't going anywhere.  Why on Earth would he?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,828]

Morgan isn't going anywhere.  Why on Earth would he?

Why wouldn't he? Blackmon left. Morgan could go make money in Europe if that's what he wanted to do.

I don't think Morgan will leave, but he could. And that's all I said.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

I think we differ on how we view our current team. I think we are bad. I think arch is doing everything he can to figure things out.

Look at our stats and win/loss scores. We are not necessarily a better team next year. Davis could leave. JuMo could leave.




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No we are not without Romeo. These freshman are not instant impact types and we lose four seniors who play a lot. Making the tourney next year will be very tough imo.

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[Bailey7878 2,506]

Lets be honest with ourselves. If we get Romeo we are looking at a 25+ win team. If we don’t? 19-23 win team on paper with expected improvements. This year we are a 17/18 win team. Not good enough to make the tournament unless we win 2 of our next 3 or get insanely hot in January and February. One or two wins over this year isn’t that hard to see for a team that isn’t fighting years of habits. Until we see how we finish it’s hard to say how next year looks. MSU will take a step back, as will NW, Minny, UM, and PU. A few of those will recruit ok and maintain, while most wont. I am not in the least bit concerned with our chances at a tournament team next season.


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23 wins next year while playing a bunch of freshmen? That is pretty darn optimistic. You are basically saying we will win 11 or 12 games in the conference. I don't see it. I'd say more like 9-9 maybe unless Romeo comes. It if we are in the tourney by year 3 archies seat should be red hot. No three year passes anymore.

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[MIUGA 70]

8 games into Archies tenure and we are already talking hot seat.
Can't we at least wait until he gets his players in here before we start talking about job security.
Also, in today's game, youth cannot be used as an excuse. Top 100 players should be ready to contribute as soon as they arrive.

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[Bailey7878 2,506]

8 games into Archies tenure and we are already talking hot seat.
Can't we at least wait until he gets his players in here before we start talking about job security.
Also, in today's game, youth cannot be used as an excuse. Top 100 players should be ready to contribute as soon as they arrive.

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All I said was he gets 3 years or the seat is hot. He will have his players the next two years but people are sick of long rebuilds so this needs to happen by year 3.

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[Uspshoosier 44,312]

8 games into Archies tenure and we are already talking hot seat.
Can't we at least wait until he gets his players in here before we start talking about job security.
Also, in today's game, youth cannot be used as an excuse. Top 100 players should be ready to contribute as soon as they arrive.

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Depends on why they were ranked in the top 100. Some are ranked on potential and how they would project later on. Regardless of ranking kids outside the top should have the mindset of contributing as soon as they arrive. Plenty of good players making an impact this year that are outside top 100 (garrison brooks,luka garza, O’shae brissett) and even outside the 200( McKinley Wright, Sterling Manley). For me this is what makes college basketball great. Players just play and if you are good you will find your way to the court


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[mdn82 25,461]

23 wins next year while playing a bunch of freshmen? That is pretty darn optimistic. You are basically saying we will win 11 or 12 games in the conference. I don't see it. I'd say more like 9-9 maybe unless Romeo comes. It if we are in the tourney by year 3 archies seat should be red hot. No three year passes anymore.

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That’s the high end of what I said, so I would agree it is optimistic.


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[mdn82 25,461]

I think we differ on how we view our current team. I think we are bad. I think arch is doing everything he can to figure things out.

 

Look at our stats and win/loss scores. We are not necessarily a better team next year. Davis could leave. JuMo could leave.

 

 

 

 

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We may be bad by our standards, but we will be hovering 100 give or take the side but close to 100. That isn’t that far from the tournament. That is 1 or 2 games depending on the victory. Davis isn’t leaving and neither is Morgan. Not sure where that is coming from, but I haven’t heard that one on either. Neither is itching for a European vacation just yet. I should add I am far more comfortable having Rob and Al man the point than Rob or Josh. They are as inconsistent as Freshman. I think we are gaining far more than we are losing.

 

 

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[mdn82 25,461]

Depends on why they were ranked in the top 100. Some are ranked on potential and how they would project later on. Regardless of ranking kids outside the top should have the mindset of contributing as soon as they arrive. Plenty of good players making an impact this year that are outside top 100 (garrison brooks,luka garza, O’shae brissett) and even outside the 200( McKinley Wright, Sterling Manley). For me this is what makes college basketball great. Players just play and if you are good you will find your way to the court


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Agreed and for us Forrester is really the only true project. The rest have a skill that plays. It’s the speed of the game that will be the biggest adjustment.


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[mdn82 25,461]

This is a problem with many young players.  Especially ones who have only recently had any modicum of success.   Moore strikes me as a kid who's not necessarily into working as hard as he needs to.  I hear the same things you probably do.  
The bottom line in this whole dialogue is yesterday's performance isn't going to get it done.  Indiana fans (rightfully so) will have little patience for a team that can't score, doesn't move with purpose, and can't find shooters.   Yesterday should have been an embarrassment to Archie Miller; and I will say again if he thinks he will succeed at Indiana trying to win every game 52-49, he is mistaken.  He needs kids who understand the game and not just the sport.  He needs scorers and shooters.   His guards right now are pitiful sometimes, and yesterday in long stretches.  

Completely agree and I put yesterday’s loss on our Seniors. At both ends they are supposed to be the leaders. I personally have never seen a groups of Seniors that played this inconsistently bad. Even VJ3 a few years back understood his limitations and took a step back. Notable rotation seniors at IU have never lacked the growth these two have had in my lifetime. It’s just weird.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

Agreed and for us Forrester is really the only true project. The rest have a skill that plays. It’s the speed of the game that will be the biggest adjustment.


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I have no idea why Clifton Moore is not redshirting. He is nowhere near ready to compete

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[Hoosierfan2017 19,903]

4 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

I have no idea why Clifton Moore is not redshirting. He is nowhere near ready to compete

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He wouldn't come if he was redshirting. 

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

2 hours ago, Old Friend said:

This is a problem with many young players.  Especially ones who have only recently had any modicum of success.   Moore strikes me as a kid who's not necessarily into working as hard as he needs to.  I hear the same things you probably do.  

The bottom line in this whole dialogue is yesterday's performance isn't going to get it done.  Indiana fans (rightfully so) will have little patience for a team that can't score, doesn't move with purpose, and can't find shooters.   Yesterday should have been an embarrassment to Archie Miller; and I will say again if he thinks he will succeed at Indiana trying to win every game 52-49, he is mistaken.  He needs kids who understand the game and not just the sport.  He needs scorers and shooters.   His guards right now are pitiful sometimes, and yesterday in long stretches.  

These aren't his guards. They're Creans guards.

I think some guy on 2banners.comcom said the same thing about not accepting 52-49 when he heard Knight was coming.

"These are the Hurrying Hoosiers damnit!", I believe was a direct quote.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

2 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

No we are not without Romeo. These freshman are not instant impact types and we lose four seniors who play a lot. Making the tourney next year will be very tough imo.

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We already have 1 freshman more prepared than 3 of the 4 Seniors and the 5-6 new players for next year were all picked by this CAM for his system