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WayneFleekHoosier

IU athletic department ranked 41/65

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No one was arguing that. it was a strawman argument put up by the person you quoted. C'mon guys, at least argue fairly...


It was argued fairly. When you start making a case for everything The coach has done you're arguing in favor of him. Plain and simple.

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7 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

 


It was argued fairly. When you start making a case for everything The coach has done you're arguing in favor of him. Plain and simple.

 

Arguing in favor of him is not the same as arguing that he hadn't made it worse than it was under Smith. The second is not necessarily part of the first. Obviously the guy would have a stronger argument if it hadn't gotten worse, but please point me to where he argued that. Otherwise your statement ("He has unquestionable made it worse. I'm baffled that anyone would even attempt at arguing that.") is just building a strawman.

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Arguing in favor of him is not the same as arguing that he hadn't made it worse than it was under Smith. The second is not necessarily part of the first. Obviously the guy would have a stronger argument if it hadn't gotten worse, but please point me to where he argued that. Otherwise your statement ("He has unquestionable made it worse. I'm baffled that anyone would even attempt at arguing that.") is just building a strawman.


That's your opinion, to me it's a wrong opinion but you're entitled to it.

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Just now, Dalton26 said:

 


That's your opinion, to me it's a wrong opinion but you're entitled to it.

 

The fact that you were arguing a strawman is not an opinion. It's a fact (as can be seen because you can't/won't point me to the language where he argued as such). My opinion (and the conventional wisdom) is that those argumentation techniques are unfair. Not everything can be dodged with the "that's your opinion." I'm not even beating the Lemonis drum, I'm beating the proper argumentation drum.

But whatever, we seem to be going nowhere. Feel free to get a last word in, and then we can call it a day.

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The fact that you were arguing a strawman is not an opinion. It's a fact (as can be seen because you can't/won't point me to the language where he argued as such). My opinion (and the conventional wisdom) is that those argumentation techniques are unfair. Not everything can be dodged with the "that's your opinion." I'm not even beating the Lemonis drum, I'm beating the proper argumentation drum.
But whatever, we seem to be going nowhere. Feel free to get a last word in, and then we can call it a day.

That is an opinion not a fact regardless of how you want to warp it in your own mind.

I already did. You're inability to read what I said is on you not me. Arguing in favor of a guy to me is arguing that things aren't getting worse. To you it's not it's really that simple. As I already said which you chose to ignore. Life is unfair get used to it. But nothing said was in the least bit unfair. If people's opinions are unfair then I don't want to be fair.

It seems the only drum you're beating is "I want to dictate how people can and can't argue." Feel free to get the last word in? Grow up man, geez you're reminding me of my two year old nephew who makes a mountain out of a mole hill.

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47 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It could be argued the basketball team had its two best years in 75-76 and yet while the following seasons weren't as impressive they were still competing on a national level. 

The last 3 years the baseball team is a shadow of its former self. With inept decisions and underachievement the norm now. 

What? A shadow of its former self? How long have you followed Indiana baseball? They've literally been to the NCAA tournament six times. Ever. Lemonis has gone twice in theee years, and Smith went three times total. And I like Tracy Smith, I'm just using him as a comparison. We aren't always going to have a Kyle Schwarber on the team. You apparently have some really bizarre expectations for our baseball program. Competing on a national level? They just got a two seed in the NCAA tournament. They played one of the toughest schedules in the country, including a win over Louisville.

By the way, after our 76 national championship team, the basketball team proceeded to miss the NCAA tournament two out of the next three years. They didn't make the NIT or anything in 77 (16-11), and they won the NIT in 79.

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20 hours ago, Banksyrules said:

I still think Glass should be fired.  

- yes we made the baseball tournament two of the last three years but before those years I thought we had an opportunity, with our new stadium and resources,  to be an elite program one day (going to Omaha or Super Regionals every other year).

- 2012 we did win a national championship in soccer but have done nothing since.  Indiana is an elite soccer program and should be doing much better.

- volleyball  we really stink but yet have not made the decision to fire a bad coach (though I hear a nice person).

- Basketball. I'm glad we have Archie, but Coach Crean should have been fired a few years ago.

- I think the swimming teams have done well in the olympics, but have brought us few national titles ( I believe).

- Football - I think Wilson was OK (results wise) and I like the guy we hired ( I'm afraid of losing him to a big football school though).

I think we should be doing better as a program but that's just my opinion.  

Well, Glass isn't going to be fired. So, that's a pointless argument. Also, could you name one baseball program that goes to the college world series every other year? Thanks. 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but how much college baseball do some of you actually watch? We are certainly not at the  level of the Schwarber era, but it's only been three years.  When you lose that much talent, you don't always just reload. We have sustained an NCAA tournament level program, and that's fine. A couple of previews are out for next season, and we are projected as a possible super regional team. I simply cannot fathom how anyone could be that upset with the baseball program. We get to one College World Series and now all of a sudden were some powerhouse?

Again, soccer is just a few years off of a national title and is in the top 10 nearly every year. They make the NCAA tournament every year. If your expectation is to win the national title every year, I don't know what to tell you. And there's a heck of a lot more parity in the game now than there was 20 years ago.

Also, why exactly are you upset with the swimming programs? Their coach is one of the best coaches in the country, and is continually selected for US events. For one thing, to kind of blow off their accomplishments at the Olympics is utterly bizarre, and two:

"The No. 13-ranked Indiana Hoosiers had the best day in program history on Friday at the 2016 NCAA Championships in Atlanta, Ga."

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2016/3/18/womens-swimming-and-diving-ius-king-wins-100-breast-national-championship-with-historic-swim.aspx

"Indiana’s Lilly King was named Swimmer of the Championships"

2017 All-Big Ten Teams

First Team

Gia Dalesandro, Indiana

Kennedy Goss, Indiana

Lilly King, Indiana

Jessica Parratto, Indiana

Alexandra Rockett, Indiana

Holly Spears, Indiana

Yirong Bi, Michigan

Gabrielle Deloof, Michigan

Siobhan Haughey, Michigan

G Ryan, Michigan

Zoe Avestruz, Minnesota 

Lindsey Horejsi, Minnesota 

http://www.bigten.org/sports/w-swim/spec-rel/021817aaa.html

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/7/1/mens-swimming-and-diving-hoosiers-wrap-up-successful-swimming-nationals-on-saturday.aspx?path=mswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/29/womens-swimming-and-diving-king-wins-another-national-title-in-record-fashion.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/28/womens-swimming-and-diving-three-hoosiers-earns-spots-on-team-usa-on-wednesday.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-places-seventh-at-ncaa-championships.aspx?path=mswim

The men won the Big Ten team title as well.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/2/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-wins-25th-big-ten-championship-in-program-history.aspx?path=mswim

Coach was B1G Coach of the Year:

Looze Named Big Ten Men’s Swimming Coach of the Year

 
Mar. 28, 2017 Men's Swimming and Diving

CHICAGO – Indiana University head swimming coach Ray Looze was named the Big Ten Men's Swimming Coach of the Year, the league office announced on Tuesday.
 
Looze, who became the first coach in Big Ten history to win both the men's and women's swimming coach of the year honors last season, is the first coach in conference history to repeat as both, as he was named Women's Coach of the Year last week. Looze has now won Big Ten Swimming Coach of the Year honors a total of eight times – five for the men and three for the women.
 
Under Looze's guidance, the Hoosiers placed seventh overall with a total of 229.5 points. The finish is the best for Indiana at a NCAA Championships since also placing seventh 38 years ago in 1979. The 229.5 points are the most for IU since scoring 274 in 1975. The top-10 finish for the Hoosiers at the NCAA Championships is the fifth in the last six years.
 
For the second-straight season, Indiana finished as the top Big Ten team at the NCAA Championships – the best stretch for IU since accomplishing the feat for 15-straight seasons from 1964-78.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/28/mens-swimming-and-diving-looze-named-big-ten-mens-swimming-coach-of-the-year.aspx?path=mswim

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16 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Lemonis took over a team that was the class of the big ten and in short order has made them a middle of the pack Big Ten team with no real signs of improvement. Despite recruiting at a high level. 

No real signs of improvement? I mean we won't be able to know what they will do until next year, but they're projected to be a potential super regional team. Also, are you not going to comment on the fact that your argument about the basketball program's couple of years after 76 was way off?

This is ridiculous. The stretch a couple of years ago had unbelievable talent. When you lose that much talent, sometimes you can take a step back. I don't understand why that is some unbelievable concept. Even with a step back, they're still a tournament team. Did you really expect them to make the super regionals or College World Series every other year like that other poster said? Is that really the expectation now?

I mean it's one thing to be a little disappointed that we haven't gotten back to Omaha yet, but you said Lemonis shouldn't even be the head coach, which is patently absurd.

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12 minutes ago, RBB89 said:

Well, Glass isn't going to be fired. So, that's a pointless argument. Also, could you name one baseball program that goes to the college world series every other year? Thanks. 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but how much college baseball do some of you actually watch? We are certainly not at the  level of the Schwarber era, but it's only been three years.  When you lose that much talent, you don't always just reload. We have sustained an NCAA tournament level program, and that's fine. A couple of previews are out for next season, and we are projected as a possible super regional team. I simply cannot fathom how anyone could be that upset with the baseball program. We get to one College World Series and now all of a sudden were some powerhouse?

Again, soccer is just a few years off of a national title and is in the top 10 nearly every year. They make the NCAA tournament every year. If your expectation is to win the national title every year, I don't know what to tell you. And there's a heck of a lot more parity in the game now than there was 20 years ago.

Also, why exactly are you upset with the swimming programs? Their coach is one of the best coaches in the country, and is continually selected for US events. For one thing, to kind of blow off their accomplishments at the Olympics is utterly bizarre, and two:

"The No. 13-ranked Indiana Hoosiers had the best day in program history on Friday at the 2016 NCAA Championships in Atlanta, Ga."

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2016/3/18/womens-swimming-and-diving-ius-king-wins-100-breast-national-championship-with-historic-swim.aspx

"Indiana’s Lilly King was named Swimmer of the Championships"

2017 All-Big Ten Teams

First Team

Gia Dalesandro, Indiana

Kennedy Goss, Indiana

Lilly King, Indiana

Jessica Parratto, Indiana

Alexandra Rockett, Indiana

Holly Spears, Indiana

Yirong Bi, Michigan

Gabrielle Deloof, Michigan

Siobhan Haughey, Michigan

G Ryan, Michigan

Zoe Avestruz, Minnesota 

Lindsey Horejsi, Minnesota 

http://www.bigten.org/sports/w-swim/spec-rel/021817aaa.html

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/7/1/mens-swimming-and-diving-hoosiers-wrap-up-successful-swimming-nationals-on-saturday.aspx?path=mswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/29/womens-swimming-and-diving-king-wins-another-national-title-in-record-fashion.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/28/womens-swimming-and-diving-three-hoosiers-earns-spots-on-team-usa-on-wednesday.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-places-seventh-at-ncaa-championships.aspx?path=mswim

The men won the Big Ten team title as well.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/2/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-wins-25th-big-ten-championship-in-program-history.aspx?path=mswim

Coach was B1G Coach of the Year:

Looze Named Big Ten Men’s Swimming Coach of the Year

 
Mar. 28, 2017 Men's Swimming and Diving

CHICAGO – Indiana University head swimming coach Ray Looze was named the Big Ten Men's Swimming Coach of the Year, the league office announced on Tuesday.
 
Looze, who became the first coach in Big Ten history to win both the men's and women's swimming coach of the year honors last season, is the first coach in conference history to repeat as both, as he was named Women's Coach of the Year last week. Looze has now won Big Ten Swimming Coach of the Year honors a total of eight times – five for the men and three for the women.
 
Under Looze's guidance, the Hoosiers placed seventh overall with a total of 229.5 points. The finish is the best for Indiana at a NCAA Championships since also placing seventh 38 years ago in 1979. The 229.5 points are the most for IU since scoring 274 in 1975. The top-10 finish for the Hoosiers at the NCAA Championships is the fifth in the last six years.
 
For the second-straight season, Indiana finished as the top Big Ten team at the NCAA Championships – the best stretch for IU since accomplishing the feat for 15-straight seasons from 1964-78.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/28/mens-swimming-and-diving-looze-named-big-ten-mens-swimming-coach-of-the-year.aspx?path=mswim

To follow up, I suspect the reason that the volleyball coach is getting so much time is that the facilities have been absolutely dreadful for that program. She's had some success but I would guess that Glass wants to give her at least a shot to see what she can do with the new arena that's coming next year. That's what he did with the previous softball coach, and after she couldn't show improvement with the better facilities, she got the axe. Again, if you really want to see these Learfield rankings improve, the women's programs on the whole need to perform better. That has been an issue for decades. IU historically has not invested at all in the women's programs, but fortunately that seems to be improving.

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1 hour ago, RBB89 said:

Well, Glass isn't going to be fired. So, that's a pointless argument. Also, could you name one baseball program that goes to the college world series every other year? Thanks. 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but how much college baseball do some of you actually watch? We are certainly not at the  level of the Schwarber era, but it's only been three years.  When you lose that much talent, you don't always just reload. We have sustained an NCAA tournament level program, and that's fine. A couple of previews are out for next season, and we are projected as a possible super regional team. I simply cannot fathom how anyone could be that upset with the baseball program. We get to one College World Series and now all of a sudden were some powerhouse?

Again, soccer is just a few years off of a national title and is in the top 10 nearly every year. They make the NCAA tournament every year. If your expectation is to win the national title every year, I don't know what to tell you. And there's a heck of a lot more parity in the game now than there was 20 years ago.

You obviously haven't seen the women's volleyball team in person.  The coach is too predictable with formations, and attacks.  The reason why she that one sweet sixteen year was because Benson was an "oh my god she is special" striker who scared everyone in the big ten. I agree facilities were bad but I hate to say it but that's the problem with a lot of womwn's programs in the nation.  They get over it.  So should we ( with the intent of improving our facilities in the future).

Also, why exactly are you upset with the swimming programs? Their coach is one of the best coaches in the country, and is continually selected for US events. For one thing, to kind of blow off their accomplishments at the Olympics is utterly bizarre, and two:

"The No. 13-ranked Indiana Hoosiers had the best day in program history on Friday at the 2016 NCAA Championships in Atlanta, Ga."

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2016/3/18/womens-swimming-and-diving-ius-king-wins-100-breast-national-championship-with-historic-swim.aspx

"Indiana’s Lilly King was named Swimmer of the Championships"

2017 All-Big Ten Teams

First Team

Gia Dalesandro, Indiana

Kennedy Goss, Indiana

Lilly King, Indiana

Jessica Parratto, Indiana

Alexandra Rockett, Indiana

Holly Spears, Indiana

Yirong Bi, Michigan

Gabrielle Deloof, Michigan

Siobhan Haughey, Michigan

G Ryan, Michigan

Zoe Avestruz, Minnesota 

Lindsey Horejsi, Minnesota 

http://www.bigten.org/sports/w-swim/spec-rel/021817aaa.html

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/7/1/mens-swimming-and-diving-hoosiers-wrap-up-successful-swimming-nationals-on-saturday.aspx?path=mswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/29/womens-swimming-and-diving-king-wins-another-national-title-in-record-fashion.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/6/28/womens-swimming-and-diving-three-hoosiers-earns-spots-on-team-usa-on-wednesday.aspx?path=wswim

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-places-seventh-at-ncaa-championships.aspx?path=mswim

The men won the Big Ten team title as well.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/2/25/mens-swimming-and-diving-indiana-wins-25th-big-ten-championship-in-program-history.aspx?path=mswim

Coach was B1G Coach of the Year:

Looze Named Big Ten Men’s Swimming Coach of the Year

 
Mar. 28, 2017 Men's Swimming and Diving

CHICAGO – Indiana University head swimming coach Ray Looze was named the Big Ten Men's Swimming Coach of the Year, the league office announced on Tuesday.
 
Looze, who became the first coach in Big Ten history to win both the men's and women's swimming coach of the year honors last season, is the first coach in conference history to repeat as both, as he was named Women's Coach of the Year last week. Looze has now won Big Ten Swimming Coach of the Year honors a total of eight times – five for the men and three for the women.
 
Under Looze's guidance, the Hoosiers placed seventh overall with a total of 229.5 points. The finish is the best for Indiana at a NCAA Championships since also placing seventh 38 years ago in 1979. The 229.5 points are the most for IU since scoring 274 in 1975. The top-10 finish for the Hoosiers at the NCAA Championships is the fifth in the last six years.
 
For the second-straight season, Indiana finished as the top Big Ten team at the NCAA Championships – the best stretch for IU since accomplishing the feat for 15-straight seasons from 1964-78.

http://iuhoosiers.com/news/2017/3/28/mens-swimming-and-diving-looze-named-big-ten-mens-swimming-coach-of-the-year.aspx?path=mswim

Nothing personal but I think your just thinking from a local perspective.  I base my opinion comparing everybody in a national scale.  I think big ten titles are nice and all but from my time at Duke, UNC, and the University of Texas that they evaluate themselves compared to every school in the nation.  You can be content with soccer right now, but we were a program that used to go to the college cup every other year.  I don't demand national championships every year but we should have a chance to go more often then now.   

We were also the first big ten team since 1984 to go to the college World Series.  I was upset that Smith left, but I thought we could have recruited a better coach ( preferably an assistant from the SEC) who would do better at developing our players.  After all we had the distinction of getting a new stadium, facilities, and a chance to be elite in the big ten and thus an easier path to Omaha.

You obviously haven't been to an IU volleyball game because you can tell her in game tactics stink.  Her formations are awful and doesn't develop players well and yes there have been a few great athletes in her program that had great potential to be powerful strikers.  

If there is anything I give Glass credit for is the ability to raise money for facilities. I wish we could hire him just to focus on that.   

Look the article says we are 41 out of 65 for a reason. If your content with that, that's great for you.  Not for me.  By the way stop living in a world of absolutes, all of you act there is no room for a middle ground.  I don't expect us to be the best of the best, but I do expect and strive to be better than 41 out of 65.

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