IUBB Offseason Topic

[Stuhoo 75,564]

7 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I'm not sure about that depth chart. I'd probably have Hartman and Morgan starting. What's the upside of Morgan coming off the bench and Smith starting?

I'd go
Newkirk - Green
Johnson - Jones - Durham
Morgan - Smith
Hartman - Moore
Davis - McSwain

I don't know how much we'll see of McSwain. He has the strength to defend the post but not the height/length. I think we'll need a Morgan, Smith, or Moore at the PF spot when Davis gets rest. McSwain could body up on an opposing Big with those guys coming from the weak side or digging with a guard. I don't think Hartman at PF and McSwain at C would work.

 

Not to be snotty, but ^^this model^^ is not how it works. 

Expect eight or nine guys to get minutes in any game that matters or is remotely close. Five starters and three or four interchangeable backups. It's "the rotation guys", not who comes in for a specific position. For instance, if Collin starts instead of CuJo, I expect Cujo to be first in, no matter who comes out. If CuJo starts instead of Collin, I expect Collin to be first in, no matter who comes out. That style will not be an absolute, but it will be generally true.

I expect the rotation guys to be:

RoJo, Juwan, DeRon, Collin, Josh, CuJo, Justin, and either DeVonte or Al, and either Freddie or Clifton.

That's nine, and that'll about do it.

 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

22 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I think being held accountable for TOs will cause them to make fewer silly decisions that lead to the TOs. 

Their poor decisions were never corrected. Why wouldn't they do them again. 

We'll see. Like I said, I fully expect overall improvement due to Archie, but we are still talking about the same players with the same tendencies and decision making they've learned over X years.

[mdn82 25,456]

I am thinking a turnover rate of 19% or better is drastic improvement and is something that would make me happy from one year to the next.


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[triple 408]

Correct.  For starters I doubt we'll spend a lot of time dribbling and passing near mid-court under Archie.  How many of our turnovers in recent years were self-inflicted as we frantically attempted to start running an offense from the 6-8 second mark on the shot clock?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

Correct.  For starters I doubt we'll spend a lot of time dribbling and passing near mid-court under Archie.  How many of our turnovers in recent years were self-inflicted as we frantically attempted to start running an offense from the 6-8 second mark on the shot clock?

Or trying to get up the court like lightning and throwing it away.

I'm good with a fast break, but just make the easy smart pass and pay attention.


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[HoosierAloha 29,887]

 
Not to be snotty, but ^^this model^^ is not how it works. 
Expect eight or nine guys to get minutes in any game that matters or is remotely close. Five starters and three or four interchangeable backups. It's "the rotation guys", not who comes in for a specific position. For instance, if Collin starts instead of CuJo, I expect Cujo to be first in, no matter who comes out. If CuJo starts instead of Collin, I expect Collin to be first in, no matter who comes out. That style will not be an absolute, but it will be generally true.
I expect the rotation guys to be:
RoJo, Juwan, DeRon, Collin, Josh, CuJo, Justin, and either DeVonte or Al, and either Freddie or Clifton.
That's nine, and that'll about do it.
 

Agreed, I was just going with the "two deep" chart. I'm most interested to see how we manage Davis and the depth at the 5. Do we try to go with length and dig or double? Do we give McSwain time and allow him to hack away if need be?

[Stuhoo 75,564]

Agreed, I was just going with the "two deep" chart. I'm most interested to see how we manage Davis and the depth at the 5. Do we try to go with length and dig or double? Do we give McSwain time and allow him to hack away if need be?

 

If DeRon is out, who comes in the game is more than a little dependent on who we're playing, and on how much weight we can put on CMoore.

 

[VO5 8,272]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

If DeRon is out, who comes in the game is more than a little dependent on who we're playing, and on how much weight we can put on CMoore.

 

Ideally Moore would be in there, but against bigger, bruising 5s you almost have to put McSwain in for his physicality.

I think we'll mostly see Moore, as he's much more skilled and taller. No offense to Freddie, but we need to get Moore the minutes because he'll be much more beneficial to us down the line.

[GloryDays 5,890]

I'm with you.
 

Green isn't a point,maybe in stints but not full time.I really think Durham will get a lot of run there.

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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

Probably not iubb related but .......

Devonte tweet
Ain't nun worse than being lied to..when u KNOW you're being lied to


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Probably not iubb related but .......

Devonte tweet
Ain't nun worse than being lied to..when u KNOW you're being lied to


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Sounds like girl troubles to me lol. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

Sounds like girl troubles to me lol. 

Agree


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[Trish 11,408]

20 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I'm not sure about that depth chart. I'd probably have Hartman and Morgan starting. What's the upside of Morgan coming off the bench and Smith starting?

I'd go
Newkirk - Green
Johnson - Jones - Durham
Morgan - Smith
Hartman - Moore
Davis - McSwain

I don't know how much we'll see of McSwain. He has the strength to defend the post but not the height/length. I think we'll need a Morgan, Smith, or Moore at the PF spot when Davis gets rest. McSwain could body up on an opposing Big with those guys coming from the weak side or digging with a guard. I don't think Hartman at PF and McSwain at C would work.

I can see the argument of Morgan and Collin starting. However, I think Smith starting will help us in terms of athleticism and defense. We all know Collin is not a defender, Morgan is ok in the paint on defense. Wouldn't call Morgan a solid perimeter defender. While Smith is a freshman, I think he has the natural ability to step right into the role of supplying some jumps and stops possession after possession.

 

I agree on the Freddie statement. He's more of an athlete than a basketball player, similar to how I view Josh Newkirk. However, I think Archie will love Freddie's ability to move his feet on the perimeter and body up some bigger guys in the paint. Freddie has a toughness that should be valuable in our pack-line defense this year. Not sure he has the defensive IQ to be our top defender out there, but he should provide some good minutes on that side of the basketball. I see Collin as a Stretch 4 on offense. Defense he'll have to guard a post player because he can't defend the perimeter imo. 

I'm not sold on Al yet. I'm hoping he's a surprise to us all similar to Morgan and OG were. 

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

On 9/6/2017 at 9:23 AM, Stromboli said:

One of the reasons I'm not as high on Green as the rest of the fanbase seems to be.  Also why I think the best backcourt may be Johnson and Jones.

I know stats are important but sometimes stats dont' tell the whole story and in Green's case I believe that is at least part of the case. As already mentioned part of it was the system he was playing in, part not being disciplined for turnovers and almost rewarded as part of the plan.... Obviously some of it is on the players (him specifically).

But I put a lot of faith in what my eyes saw with him on the court. The Offense was spread better, he made the right decisions, he is a very crisp passer, he seems to see things our other PGs don't see or don't have the confidence to attempt those passes.

CuJo on the other hand I never saw much in his game that says to me he is going to breakout and be great. I see that potential in Green.

[VO5 8,272]

19 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

I know stats are important but sometimes stats dont' tell the whole story and in Green's case I believe that is at least part of the case. As already mentioned part of it was the system he was playing in, part not being disciplined for turnovers and almost rewarded as part of the plan.... Obviously some of it is on the players (him specifically).

But I put a lot of faith in what my eyes saw with him on the court. The Offense was spread better, he made the right decisions, he is a very crisp passer, he seems to see things our other PGs don't see or don't have the confidence to attempt those passes.

CuJo on the other hand I never saw much in his game that says to me he is going to breakout and be great. I see that potential in Green.

This is where I'm at. While Green did make those mistakes, he was put in a lot of bad situations in my opinion where nobody else wanted to make a play and he was forced to. Besides the Kansas game, I never saw anything from Cujo that says "breakout" player this year. 

Im not saying I don't want that to happen. I want whatever is going to make the team better. If that's Cujo breaking out, great. If it's Green, same thing. I just saw way more potential in Green throughout last season, even if he was turnover prone.

Edit: To add on a little bit, Green took the initiative many times last year. Cujo had that deer in the headlights look often.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,293]

Green definitely looked like he had more potential last year. At some point you have to translate that potential into actual production. We won't know until the season is underway obviously but all the rumors out of Bloomington of Cujo impressing everyone sounds like he has done a better job of building his game.

Also - I disagree with a few posts above that Smith will be a better defender than Hartman. Smith certainly has more athleticism but Indiana had one of its best defensive seasons under Crean in 2015-2016 after Blackmon's injury. Wasn't Hartman a big factor in that turnaround? I think Collin is a very capable defender especially as a fifth year senior. I don't see a freshman outclassing him on the defensive end through athleticism alone.

[Trish 11,408]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Green definitely looked like he had more potential last year. At some point you have to translate that potential into actual production. We won't know until the season is underway obviously but all the rumors out of Bloomington of Cujo impressing everyone sounds like he has done a better job of building his game.

Also - I disagree with a few posts above that Smith will be a better defender than Hartman. Smith certainly has more athleticism but Indiana had one of its best defensive seasons under Crean in 2015-2016 after Blackmon's injury. Wasn't Hartman a big factor in that turnaround? I think Collin is a very capable defender especially as a fifth year senior. I don't see a freshman outclassing him on the defensive end through athleticism alone.

I'd say Collin is a smart defensive player, yells out commands and know it's assignments / rotations. However, he's just not athletic enough to actually "defend" perimeter players. 

The last season he played, I consistently saw him get blown by. Speed and agility just isn't his thing from my view. 

[BGleas 7,880]

I think Colin is a really good defender. He communicates, is almost always in the right position, and most likely is directing others guys to be in the right spot too. Is he going to get blown by when switching to an elite driver sometimes? Sure. But I'll take that over the guys that's constantly out of position or not always giving an effort. 

How Colin's injuries impact all of that remains to be seen, but at least pre-injury I liked his D given his athletic limitations. 

[Stuhoo 75,564]

And, in theory, this defense is much less likely to put him on an island guarding without help from the lane packline

[8bucks 6,119]

The difference between CuJo and really anyone on our roster is that CuJo can create separation with his defender to get a shot. Now the majority of the shot clock he is not as productive but he is probably the only guy that can get a pretty clean shot off. So far these shots, except vs Kansas, have not gone in but if he starts to find a rhythm he may really be hard to guard.