TOM CREAN FIRED

[KB0 827]

Because I know he's coming back. Fact.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say you don't know that for a fact. No one knows if he is leaving or staying. He probably doesn't even know, it's barely January.

[KingPG21 6,515]

Its called being realistic. Did you really think we would be a top 25 team after losing 4 starters? I sure as hell didn't. We've played in 2 Big Ten games this year and you all think the sky is falling. If we beat Notre Dame and Illinois half of all the posts on this board would be different.

We didn't beat ND or Illinois. Who cares what the post would be if we had beat them.

 

People are having issues because this team still doesn't look very good on the court for anything but a 3-4 minute stretch here and there. We said at the beginning of the year to give them time to figure it out and get better. Well we are now halfway through the season and there hasn't been a ton of signs of significant improvement. Most are saying they are willing to give him until the end of next season, with what we believe we are going to have. But still even with returning players including Noah and incoming players, saying they will be a top 10 caliber team seems like a bit of a stretch given what we have seen this year

[RoadToZion 373]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say you don't know that for a fact. No one knows if he is leaving or staying. He probably doesn't even know, it's barely January.

Okay sorry, 95%. 

[RoadToZion 373]

We didn't beat ND or Illinois. Who cares what the post would be if we had beat them.

 

People are having issues because this team still doesn't look very good on the court for anything but a 3-4 minute stretch here and there. We said at the beginning of the year to give them time to figure it out and get better. Well we are now halfway through the season and there hasn't been a ton of signs of significant improvement. Most are saying they are willing to give him until the end of next season, with what we believe we are going to have. But still even with returning players including Noah and incoming players, saying they will be a top 10 caliber team seems like a bit of a stretch given what we have seen this year

My point is there wouldn't be as much pissing and moaning about Crean/his coaching. 

[JSHoosier 19,580]

Its called being realistic. Did you really think we would be a top 25 team after losing 4 starters? I sure as hell didn't. We've played in 2 Big Ten games this year and you all think the sky is falling. If we beat Notre Dame and Illinois half of all the posts on this board would be different.

If, if, if.  That's an awfully big word.  If my aunt had a sack she'd be my uncle.  'If' is meaningless.  Close doesn't count in basketball, we lost plain and simple.  It was how we lost, especially against UI.  23 friggin' turnovers should never be acceptable, period.  The only reason that game went into overtime, the only reason we didn't win with a comfortable margin, is because we turned it over every other time down the court.  Being close wasn't so much what the team is capable of, it was how awful we are right now.

 

We shouldn't be struggling this bad.  Bordering on not even making the NIT, THE NIT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, should be considered unacceptable even in a "down year".  Stop lowering the bar, stop making excuses.  This team is underachieving right now.  There is no reason to not even have a win against a Pomeroy top 100 team at this point in the season.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

My point is there wouldn't be as much pissing and moaning about Crean/his coaching. 

Probably not. It is a lot easier to bitch and moan when we are losing. I was not expecting a top 25 team this year. I thought we might be "also receiving votes." I am not even one who thinks that missing the NCAA's is the end of the world. But there are a number of holes in his coaching and it can be seen even when he has a good team. IU was fun to watch the last couple of years, they probably will be next year or the year after too. Winning may slow or even stop the bitching, but the problems are still there.

[JSHoosier 19,580]

My point is there wouldn't be as much pissing and moaning about Crean/his coaching. 

We can't feed the post, we can't take care of the ball, our half court offense sucks because no one moves.  Why do those sound familiar?  Oh, right, because those exact same problems have plagued us every single year with Crean.  Different years, different rosters but identical problems with all of them.  Yeah, it sounds like the problem is the common denominator between the teams.  

 

Maybe, just maybe, people are sick of it.  Maybe people are sick of the same problems plaguing the team every year.  Maybe people (I know I sure am) are sick of hearing Crean say "I need to do better" and then nothing changes, sick of him saying "the players aren't listening" when identical problems have plagued every team in his tenure.

 

There's a reason I don't post as much on the other board, I'm sick of the sunshine pumpers constantly lowering the bar just so they don't have to admit that this team isn't well coached.  So they don't have to admit that coaching is part of the problem this team has.  So they don't have to admit that the critics were right when they said his system doesn't move or utilize bigs.

[RoadToZion 373]

We can't feed the post, we can't take care of the ball, our half court offense sucks because no one moves.  Why do those sound familiar?  Oh, right, because those exact same problems have plagued us every single year with Crean.  Different years, different rosters but identical problems with all of them.  Yeah, it sounds like the problem is the common denominator between the teams.  

 

Maybe, just maybe, people are sick of it.  Maybe people are sick of the same problems plaguing the team every year.  Maybe people (I know I sure am) are sick of hearing Crean say "I need to do better" and then nothing changes, sick of him saying "the players aren't listening" when identical problems have plagued every team in his tenure.

 

There's a reason I don't post as much on the other board, I'm sick of the sunshine pumpers constantly lowering the bar just so they don't have to admit that this team isn't well coached.  So they don't have to admit that coaching is part of the problem this team has.  So they don't have to admit that the critics were right when they said his system doesn't move or utilize bigs.

boo hoo 

[JSHoosier 19,580]

Probably not. It is a lot easier to ***** and moan when we are losing. I was not expecting a top 25 team this year. I thought we might be "also receiving votes." I am not even one who thinks that missing the NCAA's is the end of the world. But there are a number of holes in his coaching and it can be seen even when he has a good team. IU was fun to watch the last couple of years, they probably will be next year or the year after too. Winning may slow or even stop the bitching, but the problems are still there.

"Fun to watch" doesn't win games though, but those problems can lose games.  As a matter of fact, stagnant offenses and turnovers have cost us games, see Wisconsin and Illinois.

[JSHoosier 19,580]

boo hoo 

Boo hoo, because I have expectations that are a lot higher than possibly not making the NIT.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of a stagnant offense.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of constant unforced turnovers.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the team not being able to utilize bigs.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the lip service politician speak from Crean after games.

 

You can't address the points, so you resort to saying we're whining.  Great for discussion.

[Ryno6284 2,518]

Boo hoo, because I have expectations that are a lot higher than possibly not making the NIT.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of a stagnant offense.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of constant unforced turnovers.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the team not being able to utilize bigs.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the lip service politician speak from Crean after games.

 

You can't address the points, so you resort to saying we're whining.  Great for discussion.

How dare you speak the truth!  Shame on you!   I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.  Been hoping for the past two years ctc would prove me wrong, but I still feel the same way.  Nothing has changed.

[All_Hoosiers 873]

Just going to throw my thoughts on Vonleh here first before I give more toughts on Crean:

 

Noah Vonleh will not sniff the top five this year, and I highly doubt he goes higher than seven or eight. Also, unlike Cody Zeller, Vonleh's stock will more than likely rise if he returns for a second year. If Vonleh's eventual draft selection is ever lower than Cody's, then the particular draft is either stacked beyond belief like this year or reaffirms how incredibly lucky Zeller got when Jordan decided to pick him at four. I believe Vonleh will stay.

 

Now on to Crean:

 

People had low expectations for the year, and somehow Indiana can't even reach those. At some point, we have to stop using "youth" as a crutch also. Indiana could easily be 13-2, maybe even 14-1, so it's disappointing to look at 10-5. Sure, the players need to be held accountable to some extent, but Crean needs to be held accountable as well (No, he doesn't get a pass for rebuilding the program.)

 

There is no reason why Vonleh shouldn't be taking the most shots on the team. There is no reason why the starting five should be kept intact. There is no reason why four guys should stand around and watch, while Yogi or Vonleh try to do something. 

 

The offense is a mess, and that falls on Crean. Has the team even improved? That also falls on Crean.

 

I think he's a good - not great - recruiter, a great motivator, and tremendous man. He's not a great coach, but how many are actually great? I'd give him next year at least, but it's okay to begin questioning him and the future.

[jdailey1981 155]

Here is my take..people are so quick to fire him already....ok, we lost about all of our experienced players (minus Yogi and Will) but yet all of a sudden, he isn't the right man for the job, is what I keep hearing. My opinion is this, give the man 2 more seasons. These are young kids here, and we have more coming next year. He did a lot with our previous team, what makes one think he couldn't do the same, or better with others? If after next season, he can't get IUBB led to at least the Sweet 16 or elite 8, than I will start to question. Everyone just needs to remember, we have a very young team, and it shows, but who is to say that can't be better?

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

As long as there are those of us still living who remember the Knight coached teams, everything that Crean throws out on the floor will be measured against them; fair or not. IU fans are some of the best, if not THE best in the country. We know good, well coached basketball when we see it. Win or lose, the Knight coached teams always gave us a feeling that no matter the opponent, we had a fighting chance to win the game. That doesn't mean we would, or did, but we all felt that even on a down year, we could beat a DUKE or UK. It might be because everyone played out of their asses that day, or coach Knight came up with another brilliant game plan, or any number of other intangibles, but we'd go in to games knowing we could win it. 

 

Conversely, Crean's teams remind me of those put together by Lou Henson, Gene Keady, or Dr. Tom Davis at Iowa. Henson and his side kick, Jimmy Collins, could get some of the best talent out of Chicago; nationally recognized talent, and make them a fundamentally sound, competitive team. They'd be tough to beat, until they got in to the tournament. Same for Keady and Davis. Their teams just didn't seem to ever develop to a level that one might seriously expect them to compete for a title, despite all the talent that went through their programs. It's entirely possible that Crean may be in this mold.

 

The team this year, young and inexperienced though they may be, is fundamentally flawed. They don't handle the ball well, they don't shoot the ball well, they don't play defense that scares anyone, and for some reason, they don't appear to go "all out". They don't have an identity that separates them from anyone else. They do have talent. Like Henson, Keady, and Davis, Crean has put together an amalgam of talented players, that aren't getting appreciably better as the season progresses.

 

I like coach Crean, and I think, to a point, he's a good coach. But, as he said one time, "It's IU". As such, that puts us above 95% of the basketball programs in the Country, with or without him. In short, I don't think he should be fired yet, but neither do I think Glass should drag his feet if it appears things are not progressing long term. 

[jdailey1981 155]

[quote name="TrueHoosier62" post="28395" timestamp="1389105140"]As long as there are those of us still living who remember the Knight coached teams, everything that Crean throws out on the floor will be measured against them; [u]fair or not[/u]. IU fans are some of the best, if not THE best in the country. We know good, well coached basketball when we see it. Win or lose, the Knight coached teams always gave us a feeling that no matter the opponent, we had a fighting chance to win the game. That doesn't mean we would, or did, but we all felt that even on a down year, we [u][i]could[/i][/u] beat a DUKE or UK. It might be because everyone played out of their asses that day, or coach Knight came up with another brilliant game plan, or any number of other intangibles, but we'd go in to games knowing we could win it.

Conversely, Crean's teams remind me of those put together by Lou Henson, Gene Keady, or Dr. Tom Davis at Iowa. Henson and his side kick, Jimmy Collins, could get some of the best talent out of Chicago; nationally recognized talent, and make them a fundamentally sound, competitive team. They'd be tough to beat, until they got in to the tournament. Same for Keady and Davis. Their teams just didn't seem to ever develop to a level that one might seriously expect them to compete for a title, despite all the talent that went through their programs. It's entirely possible that Crean may be in this mold.

The team this year, young and inexperienced though they may be, is fundamentally flawed. They don't handle the ball well, they don't shoot the ball well, they don't play defense that scares anyone, and for some reason, they don't appear to go "all out". They don't have an identity that separates them from anyone else. They [i]do have talent[/i]. Like Henson, Keady, and Davis, Crean has put together an amalgam of talented players, that aren't getting appreciably better as the season progresses.

I like coach Crean, and I think, to a point, he's a good coach. But, as he said one time, "It's IU". As such, that puts us above 95% of the basketball programs in the Country, with or without him. In short, I don't think he should be fired yet, but neither do I think Glass should drag his feet if it appears things are not progressing long term. [/quote]

You are right, but things have changed a lot since CBK. CBK did not settle for mediocrity, and was the type of coach to light someone up for doing something stupid. Kids today just want to go to college, play basketball for a year or 2 and bank on going to the NBA. CBK made it a point to his players that education came first, and that college was not a training field for the NBA. If you wanted to play for IU, you better keep your grades up. This is one reason why CBK hated uk, because of the "one and done" philosophy and the fact that they always got away w murder. Kids used to line up all over the country to play for CBK also because they knew what he could do, but they also lined up at purdont, Illinois and uk, which is why CBK pushed for the best.

Kids don't want a coach like that today. They want a coach that can land them a championship and flee for the NBA. CTC is a good coach, but do I see him staying at IU for the long haul? No I really don't. My guess is if he doesn't produce results, people will want him gone, and he will go after his contract is up. I haven't fully given up on CTC, but I really don't know of we can put up banner 6 with him or not.

My opinion, we need an Indiana man, preferably one who has playing time on Branch McCracken court, that has a passion for IUBB. One that will not tolerate mediocrity, and only want the best. Only than, can we hang banner 6.

[8bucks 6,143]

I do not think we need an Indiana man unless one is available. Fife not ready and Alford is less proven than Crean.

RMK was not an Indiana man.

If Crean cannot get the ship righted we will be making a change. He certainly should not be fired now but the red flags are starting to go up for me - a long time supporter.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[JSHoosier 19,580]

Here is my take..people are so quick to fire him already....ok, we lost about all of our experienced players (minus Yogi and Will) but yet all of a sudden, he isn't the right man for the job, is what I keep hearing. My opinion is this, give the man 2 more seasons. These are young kids here, and we have more coming next year. He did a lot with our previous team, what makes one think he couldn't do the same, or better with others? If after next season, he can't get IUBB led to at least the Sweet 16 or elite 8, than I will start to question. Everyone just needs to remember, we have a very young team, and it shows, but who is to say that can't be better?

I don't see anyone here really saying he needs to be fired now.  Mainly it seems they're saying he's not doing a good job with this team, and they're seeing the trend of identical problems plaguing past teams.  Last years team, and the year before, had an offensive rating that had a lot to do with how good they were in the open court but in half court games they were still stagnant and struggled.  They still struggled with turnovers, including unforced.

 

Look at this year's team.  Undisciplined, sloppy, and sometimes downright lazy.  Those are not signs of a well coached team.  Sometimes a team just fails to execute, it happens, but that excuse is used A LOT by some fans.  If we're failing to execute that often, it's more often than a well coached team fails to execute.  Beyond that, this team hasn't even shown signs of improvement.  If anything it's shown signs of regression, which has to be alarming.  Now, not playing a bunch of high school teams anymore is part of that (wow, those confidence building games sure helped.  It's like the team didn't learn anything, hmmm) but we should still be able to do basic, fundamental basketball and we don't/can't.  This team does not have good fundamentals.

 

I think we all, or at least most of us, want Crean to be successful, but that doesn't mean we have to stick our head in the sand and pretend that everything is roses and rainbows when it clearly isn't.  This team has problems that plagued past teams, which suggests the problem wasn't those players but a common denominator.  Youth doesn't help, but it's not the only issue with this team.

[RoadToZion 373]

Boo hoo, because I have expectations that are a lot higher than possibly not making the NIT.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of a stagnant offense.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of constant unforced turnovers.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the team not being able to utilize bigs.  Boo hoo, because I'm sick of the lip service politician speak from Crean after games.

 

You can't address the points, so you resort to saying we're whining.  Great for discussion.

Buy a lot of tissues then, its going to be a long year for you.

[JSHoosier 19,580]

Buy a lot of tissues then, its going to be a long year for you.

It will be a long year, because I have to watch this poorly coached team try and not get embarrassed in the Big Ten.  I have to watch an offense that doesn't move for the 6th year in a row, and a coach that refuses to make changes.  I have to watch street ball one on one garbage.  I have to watch a talented big man not get the ball, not be utilized for the 3rd year in a row.  I have to watch players make stupid decision after stupid decision after stupid decision and get rewarded with playing time they don't deserve because the coach won't hold anyone accountable despite talking about accountability in his politician speeches after games.

 

Youth is only part of the problem with this team.  Get your head out of the sand and stop buying into this fallacy that Tom Crean is infallible, that his Sweet 16 ring is some huge deal.  Or if you don't want to do that, there's a couple posters on another board that would love your posts because that's exactly what they believe.

 

Here's the thing.  Tom Crean took this job knowing what expectations are here.  The standards don't lower to make him look better, it is up to him to live up to those standards.

 

Here's an idea, if you want to quote my post, how about you actually contribute to the discussion instead of calling us whiners for not thinking the almighty Tom Crean isn't doing a very good job this year.

[RoadToZion 373]

It will be a long year, because I have to watch this poorly coached team try and not get embarrassed in the Big Ten.  I have to watch an offense that doesn't move for the 6th year in a row, and a coach that refuses to make changes.  I have to watch street ball one on one garbage.  I have to watch a talented big man not get the ball, not be utilized for the 3rd year in a row.  I have to watch players make stupid decision after stupid decision after stupid decision and get rewarded with playing time they don't deserve because the coach won't hold anyone accountable despite talking about accountability in his politician speeches after games.

 

Youth is only part of the problem with this team.  Get your head out of the sand and stop buying into this fallacy that Tom Crean is infallible, that his Sweet 16 ring is some huge deal.  Or if you don't want to do that, there's a couple posters on another board that would love your posts because that's exactly what they believe.

 

Here's the thing.  Tom Crean took this job knowing what expectations are here.  The standards don't lower to make him look better, it is up to him to live up to those standards.

 

Here's an idea, if you want to quote my post, how about you actually contribute to the discussion instead of calling us whiners for not thinking the almighty Tom Crean isn't doing a very good job this year.

Ill respond tomorrow when I'm stoned.